What Shooting Method ?

[ips]

I shoot and teach all the methods, as I feel you can have a base preference but need to be able to use them all on a good round of targets.

my two go to methods are maintained and swing through, but this will largely depend on the presentation.

im not a big follower of the "look at the clay and see the rings" line. I have had this chat with Mr Lyons several times; you can either see something or you can't. There are not various degrees of looking at something. My eyes have been assessed this week and my prescription perfected- can I see rings at 40 yards? Can I f#%k! 

I understand that we do need to look at the bird (not the gun) and for beginners this is an important point worth reinforcing, however I don't believe it is the reason for most misses as some would have you believe.

also, I am 100% aware of lead on pretty much every shot I take, and you will always have a degree of barrel awareness. Try hitting one of Steves 60 yard battues by looking hard at the clay and doing nothing else- let me know how you get on!

re hard focus

with respect you are missing the point. The look for the rings or front edge technique is not meant literally it is purely a way of mentally blocking out any thoughts other than the target by trying to do so and by telling oneself that this is what you will do. There is no doubt whatsoever that when mastered this mental approach is highly effective, targets are locked onto much faster and with more commitment.

 

[Tron]

Always sustained lead, unless not possible.  With swing through, your barrel is going faster than the target.....that's not good.  Always start off with a soft (quiet eye) and move to hard focus when target is seen.  Then and only then begin moving your barrel.

Just my experiences.

Jb

 http://www.tronspace.com/Pages/default.aspx

 

[EdSolomons]

re hard focus

with respect you are missing the point. The look for the rings or front edge technique is not meant literally it is purely a way of mentally blocking out any thoughts other than the target by trying to do so and by telling oneself that this is what you will do. There is no doubt whatsoever that when mastered this mental approach is highly effective, targets are locked onto much faster and with more commitment.

with respect, as mentioned before just focusing on the target and nothing else is fine if you are shooting going away birds (trap) but falls flat on its arse else where.

 

[ips]

you may well be correct, I only speak trap

 

[timps]

re hard focus

with respect you are missing the point. The look for the rings or front edge technique is not meant literally it is purely a way of mentally blocking out any thoughts other than the target by trying to do so and by telling oneself that this is what you will do. There is no doubt whatsoever that when mastered this mental approach is highly effective, targets are locked onto much faster and with more commitment.

Unfortunately on the American forums it is meant literally, there are very well know coaches and shooters who do claim that they do see the rings or dimples at 40 to 50 yards, failing to see these details means you are not looking hard enough and therefore not following the method correctly.

Once you see these details the clay slows down and your subconscious magically puts on the correct amount of lead and line for ANY target regardless of distance and trajectory.

So see the dimples and you don’t have to do anything else whatsoever  but pull the trigger, if you miss then the amazing coaching advice is just focus harder and nothing else  .

As I cannot see these details I cannot verify if it works as advertised at sporting. 

 

[Darkside]

I would say, if the clay is close enough and slow enough to see dimples...then shooting straight at it will be fine!!!

 

[ips]

I would say, if the clay is close enough and slow enough to see dimples...then shooting straight at it will be fine!!!

agree with that :

as I say I do not believe it should be taken literally in the real world and I certainly do not believe at fifty yards any marks can actually be seen with the naked eye, I do however strongly believe that focus on the leading edge is hugely beneficial (at trap)

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Well, you see, I'm still stuck at the point where I just can't imagine having the time to analyse a target and get the path and get the lead and pull the trigger.  You folks really do live in a different world.  I'm still at the see the target shoot it phase.    Must be that old age brain decay stuff but then I never could do that other crap so I guess I'm just defective.

 

[Jim Wheeler]

lots of clays don't have dimples,, what then?   ony time i see a clay clearly is if i`m loading a machine..............

 

[Will Hewland]

Well, you see, I'm still stuck at the point where I just can't imagine having the time to analyse a target and get the path and get the lead and pull the trigger.  You folks really do live in a different world.  I'm still at the see the target shoot it phase.    Must be that old age brain decay stuff but then I never could do that other crap so I guess I'm just defective.

Do you only shoot trap?

 

[David Paul Gag]

I shoot and teach all the methods, as I feel you can have a base preference but need to be able to use them all on a good round of targets.

my two go to methods are maintained and swing through, but this will largely depend on the presentation.

im not a big follower of the "look at the clay and see the rings" line. I have had this chat with Mr Lyons several times; you can either see something or you can't. There are not various degrees of looking at something. My eyes have been assessed this week and my prescription perfected- can I see rings at 40 yards? Can I f#%k! 

I understand that we do need to look at the bird (not the gun) and for beginners this is an important point worth reinforcing, however I don't believe it is the reason for most misses as some would have you believe.

also, I am 100% aware of lead on pretty much every shot I take, and you will always have a degree of barrel awareness. Try hitting one of Steves 60 yard battues by looking hard at the clay and doing nothing else- let me know how you get on!

Well what a interesting topic 

I am well aware  Ed that you are exponent of minimum gun movement and in fact I TRY to use it myself on longer target's

But  I've also been told that you use it on all targets close stuff as well as distant ?? I find it hard to believe that minimum gun movement  SHOULD be used on close fast targets as a rule.

What do you say ??

Ps

I can feel a lesson coming on ☺

See you tomorrow 

Well I met up with Ed today in the club house at Kibworth we had chat over a coffee and I must say he made me feel very at ease in fact I think he may have hypnotised me !!!!as we went out onto the Fitasc layout he instructed me  on hold point /visual pick up and kill point as in relation to minimum gun movement I did find it a real help I didn't miss many.

It's a shame Ed hasnt done a DVD because people would buy it  !!

Dave

 

[chippy]

I think he has made a couple of DVDs but they are only available from very specialist retailers.

 

[GrrClark]

I think he has made a couple of DVDs but they are only available from very specialist retailers.

Do they have a funky 70's sleaze boogie soundtrack?

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Do you only shoot trap?

no - trap, skeet, compact (5-stand), ZZ, used to do pigeons.  All the same way.

 

[EdSolomons]

One thought I had that COULD explain this view more in the USA than over here is the difference in how they set targets.

obviously there are some exceptions like the worlds Doug set this year, but generally the targets I've seen over there are a lot steadier than we see over here, and large gaps are not needed (again, from my limited experience) where as a 12 foot lead is something you will see most weeks if you shoot in the UK regularly. The bigger gaps need a different approach to the "look at the bird and shoot it" quartering aways and settling birds.

maybe...

 

[Will Hewland]

One thought I had that COULD explain this view more in the USA than over here is the difference in how they set targets.

obviously there are some exceptions like the worlds Doug set this year, but generally the targets I've seen over there are a lot steadier than we see over here, and large gaps are not needed (again, from my limited experience) where as a 12 foot lead is something you will see most weeks if you shoot in the UK regularly. The bigger gaps need a different approach to the "look at the bird and shoot it" quartering aways and settling birds.

maybe...

Yes, I was going to say they must be shooting a load of dolly up sh*te as well..?

 

[EdSolomons]

Will you'd love it- think of the average!

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Not to defend it since I really don't GAF, but how is it the USers do so well internationally if all they shoot at home are balloons?

 

[EdSolomons]

As I said I'm hardly well travelled in the USA and was referring to regular events as opposed to majors. I think it's a contributing factor to why (in my opinion) the club level shooters are technically more competent over here.

taking absolutely nothing away from the top American shots, most of them have their own grounds and do a lot of international travel and shooting so are able to set up whatever they need to practice. I think in the next 4-10 years they will replace Brits as the dominating force in sporting due to the resources they put into it compared to us, who are by and large a bunch of "weekend warriors" as opposed to professional shots.

 

[Hamster]

Not to defend it since I really don't GAF, but how is it the USers do so well internationally if all they shoot at home are balloons?

The US shooters are getting a lot better than they were a few years ago and have shined at Dubai for sure but I wouldn't say they are doing any better than a lot of other nations really, the French, South Africans, and the British to name a few. 

I'd also bet against them taking over as undisputed ESP exponents because as much as I agree with Ed regarding resources and the importance of a professional approach, the fact remains that geography is against them. There are just too vast distances between different grounds to allow individuals to develop their game in such an all round way as to be able to tackle all comers. 

It's no coincidence that Britain produces so many world class shots, the serious ones can and do travel to dozens of different grounds and experience target variations that would be difficult to replicate in one spot.