Gunsafe keys? It's a secret!

[Salopian]

It's a joke, think about it.  (wink)

 

[SoR]

OMG 16.3 is a mere pony try 18 hands between your thighs not that is big! . :crazy:

 

[Skeet UK]

Urhmmmmmmmmm no your right buddy they are free, my mistake

OMG 16.3 is a mere pony try 18 hands between your thighs ... . :crazy:

What's that, "Greedy Girls Night"?

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Urhmmmmmmmmm no your right buddy they are free, my mistake

OMG 16.3 is a mere pony try 18 hands between your thighs not that is big! . :crazy:

:smile: quite.....hence the 'could' :smile:

18.........now that is big (draught horse of some sort I presume?).

 

[ips]

Cavalry either light, household or possibly kings troop.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Cavalry either light, household or possibly kings troop.

Haha that is 3 different types of horse.....

Draughts would nowadays only be the drum horses.....though some in the old old days would be draughts because of the weight of the armour.

Household and police are like event horses (sent a few down in my time) and cavalry are quick and nimble as &@£&...... :smile: they spent most of the time playing polo..... :laugh:

 

[ips]

Mini ips light cavalry horses were not nimble they were donkeys

Have a great pic of kings troop drum horse i took back stage of military tournament last year and some of mini ips on cav horse dressed as queen will try and send em

 

[ips]

Oops

thread drift

Not my fault .,.. Blame nic

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Hell No blame Gary......he brought horses into it.... L. O. L.

 

[glb868]

Oh no not my fault!

 

[lexikia]

In terms of the law it is as clanchief says keep the guns secure as far is reasonably practicable.

What is considered secure is open to interpretation,  I could get in that key box very very quickly and your cabinet is only as secure as that key box.  If someone stole your guns and the gun cabinet was untouched but the key box was ripped off the wall they may or may not take the view that your guns were not secure.

Aside from the legal implications I would not use it, if they have already got into your house that presents little difficulty.

Decided to keep using it. It is not that easy to break into, and as a previous post mentioned, my garage is full of tools, hand grinders, drills etc. Why would anyone spend an hour or so trying to break into this when using power tools will get him into my cabinet in minutes. How farshould you go to protect your guns? Should we  lock up every power tool? I would if i had any where to put them.

 

[timps]

Decided to keep using it. It is not that easy to break into, and as a previous post mentioned, my garage is full of tools, hand grinders, drills etc. Why would anyone spend an hour or so trying to break into this when using power tools will get him into my cabinet in minutes. How farshould you go to protect your guns? Should we  lock up every power tool? I would if i had any where to put them.

That is entirely your call,  as a child my hobbies were locks and safes (I wanted to be a locksmith rather than an astronaut )  I have got into quite a few safes and key safes for people over the years and that key safe could be broken into with a screwdriver or if you hold slight pressure on the release switch  you can feel the tumblers align. I have gained access to those type of locks in the past very easily.  

Your gun cabinet if BS approved is designed to withstand attacks for a period of time from common had tools including crowbars. A screwdriver or couple of minutes fumbling  with the lock is not going to do it. The cabinet is designed  to deter the casual get in and out quick thief, combine it with an alarm you have an effective deterrent

.

If I see that keybox I can get in it very quickly without having to root for power tools worry about the noise or spend an hour with a crow bar.

I am speaking from the experience of a friend who had his certificate revoked, he was a bit of a barrack room lawyer & took the view that as long as his guns were in something or somewhere where he only had the keys he was within the law.

All was fine until his gun was actually stolen, the police and the cps did not share his view that the guns were in fact secure, one revoked licence. Once stolen you have a hard time proving they were secure so you have to prove you took all the reasonable steps.

To emphasise  what I am saying, if your cabinet had one 4 digit suitcase tumbler lock on it would it be approved by the police?

If you were to leave the gun outside with one of those old bike locks with the same type of lock chained to the lamp post.

If you leave it in the car boot over night at home and your car was stolen.

You could argue that all the above are in fact secure in some way, but once stolen it is deemed by the fact of the theft they were not.

My point is that if you follow home office guidelines for security the police or court will find it very difficult to punish you or revoke your licence. So if your cabinet is cut in two you will be ok, if however the cabinet is undamaged the police are going to look at how this is the case.

If you were to leave your keys hung up next to it, in a locked desk drawer or in an insecure key safe you open yourself up to having your licence revoked.

If the keysafe met the minimum requirements of BS7558 I would not have an issue with it.

I am not trying to preach or tell you what to do, as I said it is entirely your call. I only point this out because my friend got his licence revoked and had a few sleepless nights worrying about the prosecution because he thought he was an actual lawyer.

. :thumbsu:

 

[a_mckenzie]

You guys have me worried now  :fie:

I have my visit set for Monday and if the subject of keys come up i have no idea what to do.

right now they are in the safe so i don't loose them but once there are shotguns in it i don't know what to do with them, let alone the spare set.  :dontknow:

 

[Skeet UK]

That is entirely your call,  as a child my hobbies were locks and safes (I wanted to be a locksmith rather than an astronaut )  I have got into quite a few safes and key safes for people over the years and that key safe could be broken into with a screwdriver or if you hold slight pressure on the release switch  you can feel the tumblers align. I have gained access to those type of locks in the past very easily.  

Your gun cabinet if BS approved is designed to withstand attacks for a period of time from common had tools including crowbars. A screwdriver or couple of minutes fumbling  with the lock is not going to do it. The cabinet is designed  to deter the casual get in and out quick thief, combine it with an alarm you have an effective deterrent

.

If I see that keybox I can get in it very quickly without having to root for power tools worry about the noise or spend an hour with a crow bar.

I am speaking from the experience of a friend who had his certificate revoked, he was a bit of a barrack room lawyer & took the view that as long as his guns were in something or somewhere where he only had the keys he was within the law.

All was fine until his gun was actually stolen, the police and the cps did not share his view that the guns were in fact secure, one revoked licence. Once stolen you have a hard time proving they were secure so you have to prove you took all the reasonable steps.

To emphasise  what I am saying, if your cabinet had one 4 digit suitcase tumbler lock on it would it be approved by the police?

If you were to leave the gun outside with one of those old bike locks with the same type of lock chained to the lamp post.

If you leave it in the car boot over night at home and your car was stolen.

You could argue that all the above are in fact secure in some way, but once stolen it is deemed by the fact of the theft they were not.

My point is that if you follow home office guidelines for security the police or court will find it very difficult to punish you or revoke your licence. So if your cabinet is cut in two you will be ok, if however the cabinet is undamaged the police are going to look at how this is the case.

If you were to leave your keys hung up next to it, in a locked desk drawer or in an insecure key safe you open yourself up to having your licence revoked.

If the keysafe met the minimum requirements of BS7558 I would not have an issue with it.

I am not trying to preach or tell you what to do, as I said it is entirely your call. I only point this out because my friend got his licence revoked and had a few sleepless nights worrying about the prosecution because he thought he was an actual lawyer.

. :thumbsu:

The above isn't quite a 1000 words (530 ish), but here is a picture to help paint the other 470...

 

[ehb102]

I'm worried now. I hide the gun safe keys in the house, but if my husband went looking for them he could probably find them. Our house isn't that big. The fact that he has access to the house means that unless I lock the keys up he has access to the keys. Not knowing where the keys are is not the same thing as not being able to get to them. 

 

[timps]

You guys have me worried now :fie:

I have my visit set for Monday and if the subject of keys come up i have no idea what to do.

right now they are in the safe so i don't loose them but once there are shotguns in it i don't know what to do with them, let alone the spare set. :dontknow:

In all the visits to me it's never been asked

Hidden where no one can find them, carry them with you at all the time or if the safe is up to it that is fine as well.

My post is only regards to cheap safes, some safes will be infinitely more secure than the gun cabinet. It's just the with the common cheap ones every thieving scrote knows how to get in them in seconds.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[ips]

Afaik the guidelines are to hide the keys. Do this and your sorted, go off piste so too speak and its open to question.

Just saying.

 

[lexikia]

That is entirely your call,  as a child my hobbies were locks and safes (I wanted to be a locksmith rather than an astronaut )  I have got into quite a few safes and key safes for people over the years and that key safe could be broken into with a screwdriver or if you hold slight pressure on the release switch  you can feel the tumblers align. I have gained access to those type of locks in the past very easily.  

Your gun cabinet if BS approved is designed to withstand attacks for a period of time from common had tools including crowbars. A screwdriver or couple of minutes fumbling  with the lock is not going to do it. The cabinet is designed  to deter the casual get in and out quick thief, combine it with an alarm you have an effective deterrent

.

If I see that keybox I can get in it very quickly without having to root for power tools worry about the noise or spend an hour with a crow bar.

I am speaking from the experience of a friend who had his certificate revoked, he was a bit of a barrack room lawyer & took the view that as long as his guns were in something or somewhere where he only had the keys he was within the law.

All was fine until his gun was actually stolen, the police and the cps did not share his view that the guns were in fact secure, one revoked licence. Once stolen you have a hard time proving they were secure so you have to prove you took all the reasonable steps.

To emphasise  what I am saying, if your cabinet had one 4 digit suitcase tumbler lock on it would it be approved by the police?

If you were to leave the gun outside with one of those old bike locks with the same type of lock chained to the lamp post.

If you leave it in the car boot over night at home and your car was stolen.

You could argue that all the above are in fact secure in some way, but once stolen it is deemed by the fact of the theft they were not.

My point is that if you follow home office guidelines for security the police or court will find it very difficult to punish you or revoke your licence. So if your cabinet is cut in two you will be ok, if however the cabinet is undamaged the police are going to look at how this is the case.

If you were to leave your keys hung up next to it, in a locked desk drawer or in an insecure key safe you open yourself up to having your licence revoked.

If the keysafe met the minimum requirements of BS7558 I would not have an issue with it.

I am not trying to preach or tell you what to do, as I said it is entirely your call. I only point this out because my friend got his licence revoked and had a few sleepless nights worrying about the prosecution because he thought he was an actual lawyer.

. :thumbsu:

Right, key safe in bin and keys hid elsewhere. Thanks for your advice. Nice to get advice from some one in the the know. Regards Mark

 

[Clanchief]

Did I not say that at the start ?

 

[lexikia]

Did I not say that at the start ?

Suppose you did but not as eloquently. Only joking, sat with both sets of keys in my pocket with no idea where to put them. No rude suggestions please.