MartynB
Well-known member
Go onto Pigeon watch and see what BASC ,( 4x the membership of CPSA ) have done . It’s not good reading .
Last edited by a moderator:
Lead Shot Ban, in news again
- Thread starter Richard59
- Start date
Help Support :
Doctor Lecter
Well-known member
basc and cpsa should consult its membership before making decisions as important as this , we pay the money we should have a say in developments !!
westley
Well-known member
And we will STILL be using water coming through lead pipes ?
Correct me if I am wrong, but does lead not come out of the ground in the first place ?
Correct me if I am wrong, but does lead not come out of the ground in the first place ?
shortlegs
Well-known member
BASC statement released yesterday
BASC statement on proposed
lead ammunition restrictions
Following the publication of the UK REACH restriction dossier for lead ammunition published by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) today, 6 May, BASC executive director of operations Steve Bloomfield said:
“The proposed restrictions would see a ban on the sale and use of many forms of lead ammunition outdoors in England, Scotland and Wales. Limited exemptions have been outlined in the dossier for the continued use of lead ammunition in some licensed settings.
“The wide-ranging proposed restrictions, which closely reflect EU REACH proposals, would apply to shotgun, rifle and airgun ammunition. The dossier will now undergo a high level of scrutiny and BASC will be playing a full role in that process.
“Through a six-month consultation also launched today by the HSE, we will challenge proposed restrictions where there are no viable alternatives to lead, where socio-economic factors mean a transition isn’t appropriate, and where lead can continue to be used in settings that present negligible or no risk.
“We have significant concerns about the short timeframes outlined in the dossier for transition away from the use of lead ammunition, which could be as little as 18 months. This is particularly alarming in light of current global supply chain issues. We will fight for timelines that are realistic and guided by the sector to ensure that the range of lead-free products and their supply can meet market demands.
“BASC will be engaging with the regulator to ensure that proposals are robustly scrutinised and that any future restrictions are based on evidence and proportionate to identified risks. We will not accept disproportionate restrictions that unfairly disadvantage shooting activities.
“Shooting is worth £2 billion to the UK economy, employing the equivalent of 74,000 full time jobs. The proposed restrictions stand to impact all 600,000 live quarry shooters and the estimated four million target and air rifle shooters in Great Britain. The regulator must be able to show its working and acknowledge the monumental challenge that restrictions will bring to the shooting community and market.
“BASC remains fully committed to the five-year voluntary transition away from using lead shot for live quarry shooting that has made such significant progress under challenging conditions.
“Given the severity of the proposed restrictions, the voluntary transition has afforded the sector a head-start in the move away from lead ammunition.”
Read more on the proposed restrictions and what they mean for shooting in our blog here.
The HSE public consultation can be found here.
© 2021 BASC - British Association for Shooting and Conservation
Registered Office: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham, LL12 0HL
Registered Society No: 28488R
BASC statement on proposed
lead ammunition restrictions
Following the publication of the UK REACH restriction dossier for lead ammunition published by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) today, 6 May, BASC executive director of operations Steve Bloomfield said:
“The proposed restrictions would see a ban on the sale and use of many forms of lead ammunition outdoors in England, Scotland and Wales. Limited exemptions have been outlined in the dossier for the continued use of lead ammunition in some licensed settings.
“The wide-ranging proposed restrictions, which closely reflect EU REACH proposals, would apply to shotgun, rifle and airgun ammunition. The dossier will now undergo a high level of scrutiny and BASC will be playing a full role in that process.
“Through a six-month consultation also launched today by the HSE, we will challenge proposed restrictions where there are no viable alternatives to lead, where socio-economic factors mean a transition isn’t appropriate, and where lead can continue to be used in settings that present negligible or no risk.
“We have significant concerns about the short timeframes outlined in the dossier for transition away from the use of lead ammunition, which could be as little as 18 months. This is particularly alarming in light of current global supply chain issues. We will fight for timelines that are realistic and guided by the sector to ensure that the range of lead-free products and their supply can meet market demands.
“BASC will be engaging with the regulator to ensure that proposals are robustly scrutinised and that any future restrictions are based on evidence and proportionate to identified risks. We will not accept disproportionate restrictions that unfairly disadvantage shooting activities.
“Shooting is worth £2 billion to the UK economy, employing the equivalent of 74,000 full time jobs. The proposed restrictions stand to impact all 600,000 live quarry shooters and the estimated four million target and air rifle shooters in Great Britain. The regulator must be able to show its working and acknowledge the monumental challenge that restrictions will bring to the shooting community and market.
“BASC remains fully committed to the five-year voluntary transition away from using lead shot for live quarry shooting that has made such significant progress under challenging conditions.
“Given the severity of the proposed restrictions, the voluntary transition has afforded the sector a head-start in the move away from lead ammunition.”
Read more on the proposed restrictions and what they mean for shooting in our blog here.
The HSE public consultation can be found here.
© 2021 BASC - British Association for Shooting and Conservation
Registered Office: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham, LL12 0HL
Registered Society No: 28488R
One just has to remember that no matter what the 'people' say or want Gov will never listen. They will go ahead with their agenda regardless. Do you really think that 2 billion turnover will make them sit up and take note? That amount is peanuts in the 'Grand Scheme' of things. You just have to look at all the billions spunked away over the last two years on nothing more than lining their pockets. It's a big club and we're not in it. Bottom line - They hate the people having any sort of weapons all on the pretence of 'safety' Absolute bullsh*t.
Paul120
Well-known member
PVC produced until recently also contains lead. Some reports (google) say that leaching levels are greater than from lead pipesAnd we will STILL be using water coming through lead pipes ?
Correct me if I am wrong, but does lead not come out of the ground in the first place ?
. Could be expensive for home owners. The trouble with giving it to the HSE is that I guess that their risk assessment will come down to it is safe or not. If there in no supporting evedence supporting either direction as with lead shot then it's assumed not safe and a workaround they consider reasonbly practical. Even if the people who do the activity find it inconvenient, inpractical or costly will be imposed or a ban put in place. Obviously its good that rules have been put in place to stop a boss ordering an employee up a 400ft chimney with less equipment (or even the same ) as Fred Dibnah, children working under looms and the other sort of activities that multinationals farm out to third world countries. But also look at some of the other rules. Wagon drivers having to pee in bottles because of unforseen traffic etc they can't make to service station because their driving time has run out. Working from ladders which means a relative safe 10 min job now needs scaffolding. Wearing a hard hat on a survey of a flat field.
Last edited by a moderator:
For 12gauge steel is doable, but what about the small gauges like .410 and 28ga they will struggle with steel even if and it is a big if biodegradable wads are available and then at what cost per cartridge.
These small guns are a popular way into the sport for juniors, I bet many of us started with a .410
These small guns are a popular way into the sport for juniors, I bet many of us started with a .410
Personally I'm not bothered about shooting steel it's the wad that bothers me, I don't like the idea of scattering plastic all over the countryside, so made the decision to go fibre 30 years ago if the manufacturers can make the wad degrade quickly then I'm fine with steel
Talking to a friend of mine yesterday who is well connected in the trade and he said that some of the trials with steel and new wads had left scoring in the barrels.
Apparently the problem arises in the area just after the chamber as most new guns are 3” chambers and the gap due to 2 3/4 cartridges combined with steel and the new wads caused the problem. Apparently steel with plastic wad is fine.
Apparently the problem arises in the area just after the chamber as most new guns are 3” chambers and the gap due to 2 3/4 cartridges combined with steel and the new wads caused the problem. Apparently steel with plastic wad is fine.
I would have thought cartridge companies would be investing heavily in research to sort out such problems. They will want to hit the ground running with superior products, if and when the ban happens.
westley
Well-known member
I understood that one of the problems with some biodegradable wads is the gaps in the leaves of the wads allowing the steel shot to come into contact with the barrels. I have just obtained some 28 gram Bismuth game cartridges, I keep them in a safety deposit box at my bank ? At over £1.30 a cartridge, I will not be trying them on clays 
Once the HSE became involved, I feel that we were "ALL DOOMED " !
Once the HSE became involved, I feel that we were "ALL DOOMED " !
Richard59
Well-known member
Just this week BASC have released a further statement, in short yes a ban or transition away from lead for game / quarry shooting but opposed to a ban on lead for clay shooting, as lifted from BASC
Lead shot for clay pigeon shooting
BASC’s position: We are opposed to the restriction proposals.
It is our view that lead shot can continue to be used for most forms of shotgun target shooting where risks are appropriately and proportionately controlled, including the application of existing directives and regulations.
Lead shot for clay pigeon shooting
BASC’s position: We are opposed to the restriction proposals.
It is our view that lead shot can continue to be used for most forms of shotgun target shooting where risks are appropriately and proportionately controlled, including the application of existing directives and regulations.
Why didn't they issue this statement at the start, seems like their backtracking with the backlash from members/public shooters
They just jump on the environmental band wagon to look good and appease instead of objecting in the first place
They just jump on the environmental band wagon to look good and appease instead of objecting in the first place
Richard59
Well-known member
Or they had various interested parties weigh through the rather weighty tome, await a reply (or many) from their own said people then draft / edit then publish a limited but point made response ( whilst keeping a card or two up sleeve ) we of course don’t / won’t ever know, thing is a reply has been made which starts to push back at the “ ban lead “ narrative.
Much harder to push back and win when you've upset so many members who may have left
MartynB
Well-known member
Instead of running events , for shooters , to tell shooters how to cook the game that said shooters have shot for years , BASC should’ve been campaigning for said years to normalise shooting with the Public . They also should get media savvy and make sure that any one of their staff who looks like Bob Fleming off of the ‘Fast Show ‘ is kept miles away from the public. Some of their media online makes me cringe . BASC were leaders in looking for a voluntary move to steel shot from game shooters , driven primarily by the fear of large commercial shoots becoming unviable . As BASc represent over 20 times the number of shooters as the CPSA , they knowingly or unknowingly were going to mess it up for the clay only shots from day one .
Having said that , we’ve got a world class sporting and fitasc shooter posting on here who is positive that standard steel shot will do the business on Fitasc targets , so I think we have to listen to that , and from a domestic competition point of view , everyone will be on a level playing field. Also the talent as always will be at the top .
As far as game shooting goes , well I’ll have to try it and see .
But one thing for sure BASC are not only closing the stable door after …. They opened it first and slapped the horse on the rump!
The one thing I’ve not seen is the CPSA response to the current position, does anyone know what it is ?
Having said that , we’ve got a world class sporting and fitasc shooter posting on here who is positive that standard steel shot will do the business on Fitasc targets , so I think we have to listen to that , and from a domestic competition point of view , everyone will be on a level playing field. Also the talent as always will be at the top .
As far as game shooting goes , well I’ll have to try it and see .
But one thing for sure BASC are not only closing the stable door after …. They opened it first and slapped the horse on the rump!
The one thing I’ve not seen is the CPSA response to the current position, does anyone know what it is ?
Last edited by a moderator:
