Coaching during a competition

[Sian]

We seem to be veering towards the novices and children being coached as the problem.  I don't want to be coached in the stand during a registered shoot,  never have been except by the odd ref as I have stated.   Discussion of targets and what I should have been doing is always after I have shot my stand.   I think the bigger problem if you are trying to play by the rules is the enormous number of experienced shots who don't take the rules seriously.  They are everywhere - can I see a pair even though I have just watched two people shoot that stand, where am I going wrong chaps mid way through a round, the gun jammed - no it didn't you left the sodding safety on you p……..ock!!  Sorry getting a little hot under the collar.  

Rules is rules, advice before your turn and after your turn in my books is absolutely fine, during your turn a no no.

There are shoots for all levels but I shoot with someone who would soon be bored of shooting little straw balers all the time and he felt it would give me a false sense of security just shooting easier targets or sticking to one or two shoots hence I have from the very beginning shot at extremely challenging places and in some extremely challenging conditions and yes sometimes you think to yourself "I wish I could go somewhere and get a higher score" but that is just fooling yourself.  Might as well just get in there and get on with it.

 

[emvicne]

Personally I find it infuriating unknown people to me leaning in the cage to tell me what I need to do when I miss - particularly as I usually know and can work out what to do to put it right...'usually' I stress not always!!    And rarely do they actually know what they are talking about I find - they just see 'woman, must need help'.  Well meaning but terribly patronising and never helpful.  If someone asks for advice after they have shot, then that's the time to offer opinions!

It's a competition at the end of the day, and we've all seen the times when someone is actually in the cage virtually pointing the gun for the shooter and then they have gone on to do very well in their class!   However, chatting about a target and what to do with it in between shooters I have absolutely no problem with.  That's all part of the shoot!

Perhaps refs need to actually stick to the rules about warning and deducting clays when someone is clearly on for a good score - when I did my refs course it was made perfectly clear it isn't allowed and what to do about it!   But common sense and a bit of kindness suggests a C class shooter clearly struggling on everything deserves a bit of encouragement.  As long as its not delaying other people. 

And I agree with Steve about the 3 second rule and seeing targets - drives me mad particularly when there is a big queue!!

 

[RobertBeard]

Reffing the British at deggla a couple of years ago, I was on stand 15, the last shooter of the day steps up, he hadn't hit a clay since stand six, and was on for 14 x 120 (if he straighted my stand, )

He missed the first pair, he missed the second pair, I leaned over and quietly said, your over the top of them both, there going away and dropping quickly , he then smashed the pair, the look of joy in his face said it all, I then get berated from the 1 remaining squad member about coaching... So do you let him go home totally demoralised possibly never to return , wrong thing for me to do if following the rules, morraly the right thing I think. Plus although I was there in an official capacity, I'm still a shooter who likes to encourage, if occasionally outside the rules, obviously if the shooters on for a massive score you say nothing,

Commonsense prevails!

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Lets stay the same. Lets have the rule that says no coaching in the stand under any circumstances. If there is anyone who wants to coach their son/daughter/wife/ husband etc. go and shoot a non-registered shoot, there are plenty of them around. When they have achieved sufficient confidence and skill then move on to a proper shoot with rules that everyone adheres to and understands - its called a registered competition.

Baaaaaah humbug......you old conservative

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Nicola you are human !! .

I am most certainly not....according to my husband I am an alien.....he reckons I am a 10ft lizard type alien (if I took my human skin off) who communicates with the mother ship during the early hours (some sort of snoring mechanism I believe).....just saying..!

 

[wylye]

Baaaaaah humbug......you old conservative

Call me what you like but don't call me a bloody conservative!

 

[Guerini Guy]

"We need rules enforcing for people like you"

Well firstly you don't even know me, so what do you mean by "people like me"? Does that mean some kind of riff-raff because I dared to use a swear word (oh golly) or, god forbid, allowed my wife to enter a registered sporting competition before she had reached a standard acceptable by you?

My goodness, I can't really believe that I would read such elitist drivel on here, and yet people are always bleating on about encouraging new people and specifically more women to the sport.

I personally have no problems with rules being enforced and, actually, if on the odd occasion when I have tipped a word of advice to the wife (which by the way I have already said I know is wrong) the referee admonished me accordingly, then I would not have argued with him.

​And as I understand you are somebody who either was a ground owner or at least ran shoots, I bet you were not so damned elitist when it came to taking our money !!!

Your attitude is really disappointing.

 

[RobertBeard]

That's it exactly. Registered competition is a stage up from non-registered shoots and fun shoots. It's all about progression and advancement in your sport.

Most sports would have you qualify to shoot at higher levels. Thankfully most shooting is not like that. Registered competition is generally set harder than a practice layout (in sporting rather than skeet or trap) so might demoralise a beginner aswell.

There's shoots available for all levels. I don't shoot on the World stage due to cost and lack of ability which would make it pointless to me, but I still have plenty of choice to be a big fish in a small pond or totally outclassed should I desire. I'd like to think I've reached a level of competence to allow this though.

Could you imagine me having a go in Lewis Hamilton's car when he fancied a day off at a Grand Prix?  :biggrin:

Interested to know how one knows the difficulty of the targets if you've never been before.

Its not as if grounds are graded as to target difficulty and published.

There seems to be a big leap between straw balers and the registered ground comps that I have been to.

I suppose one should go and shoot all these grounds, practice only, with a mate who knows what he or she are doing and who can give you pointers.  Otherwise its going to cost a fortune in coaching which should not be necessary.

Quite happy with the no coaching rule in the cage but I liked Alan Rowley's post where the ref can see that the shooter hasn't got a hope in hell from the scorecard and can be given some encouragement and pleasure in actually hitting a target rather than blanking a stand!

 

[ips]

Well that sounds like only skilled shooters should be allowed to shoot registered comps - what boll*cks !

One of the main things that seperates shooting from many / most other sports is the fact that any cpsa reg shooter can turn up and shoot a reg comp and indeed a major alongside world class and or Olympian shooters. I still remember my first reg comp about a month after starting alongside the top DTL lads in that era the likes of David Ball, Keith Bond, John twigg etc etc. Then my 1st English open at bywell the year after, wow 500 shooters of all abilities, what a fantastic sport I thought to myself, and still do.

As for coaching during a comp, well I thought that this was strictly against the rules it certainly is at trap.

 

[wylye]

You see, what we have here is a failure of communication. (Which film did that come from?) When I made my earlier comment I was a little unsure of your attitude to cheating, now there can be no mistake!

On the money front - I enjoyed immensely taking it from my customers and I think they enjoyed paying it.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Call me what you like but don't call me a bloody conservative!

You are the exact perfect example of a conservative (note I did put a differentiating little c)

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Wylye stop trying to wind up GG with your posts. We do not want a war on here please.

I must say that I am very saddened that shooters forget their start in the game and how hard it was....before you made friends to shoot with....and before you had people to encourage you.

GG is right....this game is becoming elitist ....mostly with the ideas of people who are not actually elite shots :wink:

Well....shock horror.... I have given help to a youngster at sporting.....shock horror.....whilst the youngster was in the cage.....to 'focus'.......or to 'add a little more lead' ......or to 'keep a smooth swing, don't rush' etc etc etc. I also gave help to a youngster I met for the first time at a trap ground, of course I was pulled up about it....By a friend who kindly reminded me of the rules. i honestly had forgotten the no coaching and I explained that the 14 yr old hand not shot trap before, this was the first day that I had met the youngster and wanted to make sure that he was safe on his first round. There was no disturbance to anyone apart from miserable sods watching who complained to my friend......and the youngster continued to happily shoot the next 3 rounds without any help and with the confidence that all newbies should be given.

I hate stupid rules....just like driving at 70 on a motorway.....we all do that don't we.

Rules is rules is one cry.........help beginners or youngsters by being sensible with rules is another.....'if' we want to grow the sport.

It just goes to show that in this sport there are so many different opinions that we will never make it acceptable as a main stream sport....because it will be seen as miserable as it is.

As for the comparison (whoever made it) to Formula 1............registered shoots are not the Olympics...!!

I say again for those who did not understand......my 'suggestion'......was only........possible change to the rules to allow a category of 'birds only with help' ...or however you want to describe it.......with absolutely no winning or money, prizes, or trophies.....would allow people to shoot harder registered targets without being broken down never to return.

 

[Will Hewland]

At EJ Churchill, they send out non CPSA members with a yellow score card. This lets the ref know that the coaching rules don't apply to them. Solves the problem for some at least.

 

[clayclouter]

I get constant advice in the stand at registereds from CLEVERSC3 I have been C--B--C  class for years!!! just saying ????

 

[Will Hewland]

I get constant advice in the stand at registereds from CLEVERSC3 I have been C--B--C  class for years!!! just saying ????

Abuse after you have shot is not advice.

 

[wylye]

I get constant advice in the stand at registereds from CLEVERSC3 I have been C--B--C  class for years!!! just saying ????

I think you should change your coach.

 

[Les53]

As for coaching during a comp, well I thought that this was strictly against the rules it certainly is at trap.

Can you imagine the uproar if such a thing happened at a reg OT shoot, or even worse at a reg DTL?????? 

 

[Will Hewland]

I think you should change your coach.

You're very unkind about Ed.

 

[wylye]

You're very unkind about Ed.

:biggrin:

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Can you imagine the uproar if such a thing happened at a reg OT shoot, or even worse at a reg DTL??????

:laugh:

Oooops