The worst exponents of coaching on the stand are parents coaching their kids. The only way to stop it is to have refs and not scorers. I don't agree that they should be allowed to coach colts/juniors if they shoot targets only - their scores are recorded and it is there for posterity. Hardly fair really.
Coaching during a competition
- Thread starter Salopian
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Only way it could be policed is to remove the rule, it doesn't work now, so how could it work for say B class shooters and below? And at the end of the day as long as it does not cause a delay to the proceedings what difference does it make? Most people who are advising shooters in the cage are giving them the wrong advice! :biggrin:
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By allowing the birds only lot....they can grow in confidence with both their shooting and being at a registered.
There is nothing unfair about it at all. They are not in the money. And there is nothing wrong with them improving their classification. Their classification only comes into play when they eventually go competition. Sooner or later they will 'feel' confident to put the extra money down and go competition. Then if they are in a higher class because they have had help....so what....they are in a higher class....good luck to them.
Much better than newbies or juniors being hammered in competition because they are not allowed a word in the ear as to how to read a target. Why send them home devastated rather than with a smile on their face and a bit of knowledge that can help them learn or improve.
Not all newbies or juniors can afford lots of £'s on lessons....just saying..!
There is nothing unfair about it at all. They are not in the money. And there is nothing wrong with them improving their classification. Their classification only comes into play when they eventually go competition. Sooner or later they will 'feel' confident to put the extra money down and go competition. Then if they are in a higher class because they have had help....so what....they are in a higher class....good luck to them.
Much better than newbies or juniors being hammered in competition because they are not allowed a word in the ear as to how to read a target. Why send them home devastated rather than with a smile on their face and a bit of knowledge that can help them learn or improve.
Not all newbies or juniors can afford lots of £'s on lessons....just saying..!
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Nick Selby
Well-known member
Agree with Will, common sense should be applied although I understand you have to draw a line somewhere. Difficult one.
Spot on Nicola,
A beginner can only do so much repetition on the practice range. The way to progress is to get amongst it and shoot with everyone else.
Gene Holmes
Well-known member
In the US I think they call it unenforcebleized :biggrin:
Edit. No, sorry. It unenforcebleization
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I have shot a registered shoot where the ref started coaching a novice, I guess he felt sorry for him.
It doesn't bother me personally but the only issue I have is we cannot pick and choose the rules we follow or there will be mayhem.
If you don't like the no coaching rule then don't go to a registered shoot or petition for it to be removed but you have to adhere to it if it's in the rule book.
I have witnessed one incident which was like a full blown lesson in the stand which was holding up the shooting somewhat and not really fair on the shooter to follow.
A quite word in the ear as they are reloading is one thing but a lesson mid stand is a bit over the top.
It doesn't bother me personally but the only issue I have is we cannot pick and choose the rules we follow or there will be mayhem.
If you don't like the no coaching rule then don't go to a registered shoot or petition for it to be removed but you have to adhere to it if it's in the rule book.
I have witnessed one incident which was like a full blown lesson in the stand which was holding up the shooting somewhat and not really fair on the shooter to follow.
A quite word in the ear as they are reloading is one thing but a lesson mid stand is a bit over the top.
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no.1topdog
Guest
Sorry to be a killjoy, but I do agree with you. Let them shoot under competition rules to get used to competition, and that means no coaching.
It's like passing your driving test and expecting to have someone sitting beside you telling you what to do all the time. There's a time when you have to progress and make your own decisions. :rtfm:
Gene Holmes
Well-known member
I shot the Essex Maters last year with a few mates. It was my first comp after taking up shooting a few months earlier.
The first three or four stands, they were giving me small pointers before going into the cage. After 6 stands I was beating them all.
Strangely, the advice stopped. :biggrin: :biggrin:
The first three or four stands, they were giving me small pointers before going into the cage. After 6 stands I was beating them all.
Strangely, the advice stopped. :biggrin: :biggrin:
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Must say this problem 
hadn't even registered on my radar before now, last Sunday I watched a very promising and hard working junior blast his way to a blank on one particular bird and resisted advice that would, I guarantee have resulted in him not only finding the bird but learning a valuable lesson, as it is I had to tell him just as he was leaving the car park no doubt rather deflated and who knows when he comes across that target again and whether he'd remember what caused his misses.
Too many people needing chill pills, in any case it's not like a casual word here and there is going to cheat anyone out of money (the huge mound of it that there is), it all balances out in the end.
hadn't even registered on my radar before now, last Sunday I watched a very promising and hard working junior blast his way to a blank on one particular bird and resisted advice that would, I guarantee have resulted in him not only finding the bird but learning a valuable lesson, as it is I had to tell him just as he was leaving the car park no doubt rather deflated and who knows when he comes across that target again and whether he'd remember what caused his misses.Too many people needing chill pills, in any case it's not like a casual word here and there is going to cheat anyone out of money (the huge mound of it that there is), it all balances out in the end.
chippy
Well-known member
It would not be any good asking me for advice as whenever I watch someone shooting they always look in front even when they are hitting them.
Fortis Mark
Well-known member
I personally think that if they are birds only, a quick word in the ear may be of benefit to the shooter and the sport in general.
My dad regularly shoots reg comps with me, he is C class and only ever shoots birds only. I have on a few occasions asked the ref if It would be ok for me to give him some pointers on the stand. Common sense prevailed. No one has ever refused.
My dad regularly shoots reg comps with me, he is C class and only ever shoots birds only. I have on a few occasions asked the ref if It would be ok for me to give him some pointers on the stand. Common sense prevailed. No one has ever refused.
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Guerini Guy
Well-known member
I must confess that I do stand behind my wife sometimes when she is in the stand, and I do quietly give her the odd little pointer, but only if she has already missed 50%. I do know it is wrong, but I figure it will keep her interest in shooting much more alive if she actually hits a few on every stand. So far that seems to be working and she is still very much enjoying her shooting despite still hitting very low scores.
The worst cases I have witnessed have actually been at registered FSP shoots . . . . . . not amongst the competitors so much, but from some of the refs, even the regular experienced ones. One in particular I have witnessed reminding EVERY shooter in the squad where each of the targets are coming from and the style of target, and on one occasion on a particularly difficult target that everybody was struggling with, even suggested the correct amount of leeed to put on the target.
I always thought that sort of thing was supposed to be more of a no-no in FSP than any other discipline, but that has not been my experience over a number of FSP comps !
The worst cases I have witnessed have actually been at registered FSP shoots . . . . . . not amongst the competitors so much, but from some of the refs, even the regular experienced ones. One in particular I have witnessed reminding EVERY shooter in the squad where each of the targets are coming from and the style of target, and on one occasion on a particularly difficult target that everybody was struggling with, even suggested the correct amount of leeed to put on the target.
I always thought that sort of thing was supposed to be more of a no-no in FSP than any other discipline, but that has not been my experience over a number of FSP comps !
Will Hewland
Well-known member
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no.1topdog
Guest
Just like to run this one by you Hamster. I've seen your scores and know that you'll never really be worried by someone who needs coaching because you'll probably be in the top 3 anyway, but just imagine you've just shot your 95 at Greenfields and GD pops by and has a word in that Howland chap's ear on the last stand and he posts a 97. Not just once, but each time you go.Must say this problem
Too many people needing chill pills, in any case it's not like a casual word here and there is going to cheat anyone out of money (the huge mound of it that there is), it all balances out in the end.
Would you feel the same way then? :biggrin:
There is a big difference between helping someone who had just missed a barrow load and can't hit a thing and a coach standing talking a pupil through the targets, "your hold point is wrong, move it forward/back/up/down" "move your feet" "remember it's stalling, front edge" ect ect ect...
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Oh the irony of discussing rules and Sporting! Don't get me wrong here I'm not belittling the discipline in any way, but there are closer crocodiles to the canoe than a bit of beginner coaching when it comes to Sporting and it's issues. Surely the inherent inconsistency of the discipline is why it is so appealing to most shooters, and beginner coaching is just one of those aspects. It simply does no harm.
