Well worth a read.

[Jan Powell]

Some of you may have seen this before. Russell Mark lists his all time top 20 clay shooters.

Personally, I rate Kim Rhode is the standout number 1. Nobody else has got anywhere near her achievements with years more success to come.

Have a look, see what you think...

http://www.shooting.by/im/results/The_Top_20_of_the_Worlds_Greatest_Competitive_Shotgunners.pdf

 

[Hamster]

Interesting. You're always going to get widely varying opinions with lists like this, I have read a few experts lists with regards to Formula 1 and snooker and they rarely fail to raise an eye brow. The saving grace of this one is that it places Digweed at no. 1, I personally don't rate American trap or Flyers  :blink:  (shooting live pigeon for money bets) as worthy enough in skill terms to warrant inclusion. 

People such as Kim Rhode do indeed warrant high regard but again, for me her achievements have to be seen in the context of a very narrow band of skill plus you have to take into account her being possibly one of THE most sponsored shooters in history. She has done nothing other than shoot skeet every single day. She might scrape into the list towards the end but at no. 3 and above Richard Faulds the list loses credibility. 

 

[Jan Powell]

People such as Kim Rhode do indeed warrant high regard but again, for me her achievements have to be seen in the context of a very narrow band of skill plus you have to take into account her being possibly one of THE most sponsored shooters in history. She has done nothing other than shoot skeet every single day. She might scrape into the list towards the end but at no. 3 and above Richard Faulds the list loses credibility. 

Eh? Kim won an Olympic medal at double trap. When that discipline disappeared she switched to skeet and has won just about every medal going including an Olympic gold.

I can't think of any other shooter, male or female, that has even come close to that.

There's many world class shooters on the list that have dominated their chosen discipline. As far as I can see there's none, other than Kim, that have found a way to dominate several.

Oh, and don't forget, olympic skeet and double trap are just about at opposite ends of the shooting spectrum. That somebody can master both to the highest possible standard makes them my number 1.

 

[paul b]

For me the ultimate has got to be richard faulds winning fitasc world sporting and olympic double trap shows both technical and psychological  performance at its best,he was a machine in those days.

 

[Les53]

I'm waiting for ips......he's our resident list expert! ?

 

[ips]

the list is flawed.

john Stafford should have been in top twenty and although paul chaplow is mentioned he too should have been top twenty. Why you ask ? Because both have totally dominated DTL at world level. Apart from possibly Mr digweed I do not believe that any other shooters have dominated a discipline in the way these two have and for such a time span.

 

[Jan Powell]

John Stafford certainly. Not only was he one of the best DTL competitors, he was also damn good at fast trap too. 

When it comes to discipline domination few can top the 42 world titles won by Wayne Mayes. His achievements in American skeet over several decades make the best on this side of the Atlantic look distinctly average.

 

[Hamster]

Eh? Kim won an Olympic medal at double trap. When that discipline disappeared she switched to skeet and has won just about every medal going including an Olympic gold.

I can't think of any other shooter, male or female, that has even come close to that.

There's many world class shooters on the list that have dominated their chosen discipline. As far as I can see there's none, other than Kim, that have found a way to dominate several.

Oh, and don't forget, olympic skeet and double trap are just about at opposite ends of the shooting spectrum. That somebody can master both to the highest possible standard makes them my number 1.

In terms of Olympic wins at Skeet Kim is beyond reproach, several British shooters have won multiple world championships at both ESP and Fitasc, a few can add Compak to that, RF has won Olympic Gold at double trap too. My roll of honour would include people who are all rounders, for me Skeet targets are simply too easy. The winning is in hitting all 100. 

A world class Fitasc/ESP shooter can turn his/her hand to Skeet (even the Olympic variety) and hit very high percentages with next to no practice, world class Skeet shots such as Kim would be in no mans land. 

Trap and Skeet are essentially similar in that winning entails hitting 100, they're not that different from a skill set point of view. The reason so few take up these is the boredom factor which leaves the way for people who don't get bored senseless practicing easy targets 6 days a week. 

If I'm honest I just wouldn't have yawn discipline shooters on such a list. 

 

[Docterduck]

Over 1000+ rounds a day to get where she has and headed again!  Great lady.

 

[Mutley]

I have to smile when I read these comments, how some of the names mentioned even compare to the ones on the list are beyond me, Our DTL supremo doesnt shine well when abroad, the shooters Russell listed are World class shooters.

And to say that hedge monkeys only should be the best in the world also is a strange comment.

These shooters have showed the determination and dedication to win consistently at world level for many years, they deserve respect, regardless of sponsorship and if they are full time shooters or not. 

 

[paul b]

I supose the question that needs answering first is,what criteria makes the greatest shot.Is it someone who can hit the same fixed sequences over and over again or is it some one who can hit ANY sequences over and over again (and become no1 obviously).

 

[ips]

I have to smile when I read these comments, how some of the names mentioned even compare to the ones on the list are beyond me, Our DTL supremo doesnt shine well when abroad, the shooters Russell listed are World class shooters.

And to say that hedge monkeys only should be the best in the world also is a strange comment.

These shooters have showed the determination and dedication to win consistently at world level for many years, they deserve respect, regardless of sponsorship and if they are full time shooters or not. 

with respect I think you will find determination was not lacking in john. You do not have to shoot issf stuff to be considered a great shot and as Jan says john was a fabulous fast trap shot and there were reasons he stayed predominately dtl. One final thought, the likes of Stafford and chaplow have to shoot 100% to be in with a shout and have to compete against many hundreds not a mere one hundred if your lucky at an OT uk major.

rant over, I do get rather fed up with the lack of respect shown to dtl and the dtl greats.

 

[Hamster]

I have to smile when I read these comments, how some of the names mentioned even compare to the ones on the list are beyond me, Our DTL supremo doesnt shine well when abroad, the shooters Russell listed are World class shooters.

And to say that hedge monkeys only should be the best in the world also is a strange comment.

These shooters have showed the determination and dedication to win consistently at world level for many years, they deserve respect, regardless of sponsorship and if they are full time shooters or not. 

Not saying that at all, I AM saying though that a list pretending to place ALL of the planets shooters in order of merit HAS to take account of the relative difficulty of the task in hand. 

I would have no trouble whatsoever in Kim Rhode topping the Skeet list, maybe even the Trap and Skeet list but to pretend she possesses all round moving target prowess ahead of the top 200 (maybe top 500) Fitasc shooters in the world is naive and churlish. 

Trap and Skeet are easy, period. That's why dozens and dozens of shooters worldwide have shot hundreds of straights. How many ESP shooters do you know who have straighted even so called easy layouts ? How many do you know who have shot 99 or 98 even ? When you turn up for a yawn comp (anywhere in the world) you know exactly what's in store, in contrast when you shoot Fitasc/ESP/Compak you have no real idea about the distances, types of clays or combo's being presented. You have to master them on the day, this is infinitely harder. 

You wouldn't mix names from Pool and Snooker now would you ? They don't lump drivers from different race categories into such lists either for the same reason. These lists have to be separated by category, that's all. 

 

[ips]

as a died in the wool trap shooter it grieves me to say that "hammy has a valid point"

even between the trap disciplines it is difficult to compare. I know of many fabulous fast trap shooters who could not hit B class dtl scores and of course tuther way round.

end of the day every discipline has merits every discipline is hard to get to the top and indeed stay at the top.

 

[Sian]

On the issue of respect I agree with Ips, I also think you have "greats" in all disciplines for different reasons.

 

[Mutley]

 One final thought, the likes of Stafford and chaplow have to shoot 100% to be in with a shout and have to compete against many hundreds not a mere one hundred if your lucky at an OT uk major.

rant over, I do get rather fed up with the lack of respect shown to dtl and the dtl greats.

I arent comaparing these guys with UK shoots, the list is a world list, John was/is a superb shot at any ground....... (nuff said)

The list was compiled by an ISSF shooter, so it's going to lean that way, I wouldnt exclude great shooters of any discipline, but these are people who have consistently been at the top at world level, not domestic level..

I would sneak Mickey Rouse in there, he was a joy to see in action, and for a real good DTL shooter or 2 David Ball and John's Dad and Keith Bond..

But this is Russell's list from his many years of competing/shooting around the world, he will have seen far more competent shots than us mere mortals ever will.....

 

[shredder]

In terms of Olympic wins at Skeet Kim is beyond reproach, several British shooters have won multiple world championships at both ESP and Fitasc, a few can add Compak to that, RF has won Olympic Gold at double trap too. My roll of honour would include people who are all rounders, for me Skeet targets are simply too easy. The winning is in hitting all 100. 

A world class Fitasc/ESP shooter can turn his/her hand to Skeet (even the Olympic variety) and hit very high percentages with next to no practice, world class Skeet shots such as Kim would be in no mans land. 

Trap and Skeet are essentially similar in that winning entails hitting 100, they're not that different from a skill set point of view. The reason so few take up these is the boredom factor which leaves the way for people who don't get bored senseless practicing easy targets 6 days a week. 

If I'm honest I just wouldn't have yawn discipline shooters on such a list. 

Anyone who thinks osk targets are easy has never shot them

 

[Hamster]

Anyone who thinks osk targets are easy has never shot them

Well they're pretty close though and it's easier to shoot 95x100 than it is at Sporting. The top people will have all shot straights, not so the case with Fitasc. 

 

[Jan Powell]

The truth is each discipline poses its own challenges and the skills required to reach a high level in one are not often transferable to another. I fancy very few trap shooters could achieve a consistently high standard at sporting and, as has been proved in several occasions, vice verse also applies.

Anyway, getting back to the original topic, I think Russell has it about right. Apart from switching one or two around I can't see any glaring omissions.