Way to go, Coach!

[ehb102]

My husband expressed an interest in trying clay shooting. I said that I'd like him to do the CPSA module in shotgun skills first so that he knew about basic safety and was shown how to mount a gun properly. Being new to the sport myself I don't feel confident that I could instruct someone else correctly. I booked the coach I use for my husband and a friend, and the coach brought a helper with them. 

Immediately after the session the helper told my husband that he would never be any good and shouldn't bother even trying again. When I said surely that with another lesson my husband could improve a little the helper coach said he wouldn't take the guy's money. The phrase "I don't mean to be rude, but..." was used, and it was a pretty damning indictment where he ended up saying my husband simply didn't have the physical attributes necessary  to be able to shoot. It was embarrassing, and I had it confirmed by our friend who also attended that it was unnecessary and out of order. My husband hit two clays out of 25 on his first ever lesson.

Talking with my husband I found that he had trouble holding the gun up. He's a complete novice who does no sport or exercise and although he's 6' tall he weighs 10.5 stone, so he's a very slight build. A 5'6" woman that weight would be considered on the small side.

I am absolutely livid. All I wanted was for my husband to have a good introduction to the sport I've fallen in love with, which is also the only thing I've ever done that he's been interested in trying. Instead he was humiliated by a bully who so far as I can see was trying to explain away his lack of coaching success. I think the coach should have realised that my husband was having trouble with the weight of the gun, but didn't actually look at the situation and made the old-fashioned assumption that a man should be strong enough to wield a 12 bore. If that had happened they could have borrowed a club gun or even stopped the session and rearranged when a lighter gun could have been found. 

So here's where I would like the opinion of ShootClay forum members. 

(1) If I can get my husband to look past his horrible experience would it be worth having another go with a lighter gun? How much lighter would it be possible to get? Kids shoot clays so there must be something available that is light and easy on the beginner. There's no rule that says a man must use a 12 bore over and under is there?

(2) Is it unreasonable of me to expect a highly qualified and experienced coach to see that the student is having serious trouble with holding the gun up due to weight?

(3) Is it really fair to declare someone utterly useless after just 25 clays? 

Thanks for your perspective. 

 

[Hamster]

Sorry but I feel livid just reading this, what a disgraceful attitude and thing to say to your husband. Pity he doesn't live closer so we could share a few outings but I guarantee you he will improve with a couple more sessions.

 

[RobertBeard]

I am not qualified to advise on the technical aspects but I believe that you have been badly treated by a pair who are apparently unskilled in both coaching clay shooting and interpersonal skills.

I think its an absolute disgrace and that they should be named, shamed, reported to any body or coaching organisation.  From your perspective it is something that you could look forward to doing together regardless of your respective competencies and that has now been put in jeopardy.

Were they employed by a ground to do this and if so you should complain in the strongest possible terms.

Outrageous!

 

[Will Hewland]

Sounds incredible!

A shotgun will always feel like a weird heavy object to a beginner for three main reasons. 1. Holding it uses a muscle group not quite usually worked to most people. 2. A beginner will often be holding it a bit awkwardly. 3. A beginner will spend longer holding the gun up than an experienced shot.

I taught my 12 year old step daughter to shoot and she was NOT strong. 7 stone then? I initially took her to an instructor for her first go to avoid 'emotions' and she hit 0, yes ZERO out of 30 clays. I soon got her hitting 50%.

If your husband is able bodied, then 10.5 stone and unfit is no hindrance to this sport. Get a decent instructor (proven record not just a badge) to start again with him. He'll be fine!

 

[Madmillie]

Elizabeth

So sorry to hear that you and your husband had such a lousy experience today. I would suggest that you find another coach, and quick! This is a great sport which does encourage all comers and abilities. Your husband clearly needs encouragement and not belittling. Don't worry about the size of the gun or its weight at this stage, I'm pretty sure a good coach will be able to point you in the correct decision on that issue as well. Good luck to the both of you in enjoying a long and happy lifetime of clay shooting.

MM

 

[Andy]

Name and shame, that’s my thinking, book your husband a lesson with another coach because it sounds to me that the coach you used is only trying to cover up his own inability to teach.  I will add more when I have less Guinness inside me.

 

[DoubleBarrelledDon]

When will people learn that a good coach is a good coach because of their people skills and the way they can get the best out of their pupils. You can sit as many tests as you want but if you cant communicate its worthless and sadly there are plenty out there with plenty of badges who will NEVER EVER be a good coach....and plenty who have no badges who are great coaches.

 

[Skeet UK]

This is an outrage, clear and simple.  The coach should be reported to the CPSA immediately, the shooting ground where the lesson took place should also be told.  

Utterly disgusting.

Go and buy the current Clay Shooting magazine and you will see a guy, who has very limited arm mobility and dexterity.  Tim Greenwood has been working with him to build an amazing gun for him to shoot.  Ask this coach if the guy in the article has the "physical attributes" for shooting!

I seriously...seriously would love to swear my ass off right now... :growl:   

Holding a heavy gun in the manner that we do, can be pretty hard if you haven't done anything like it before.  You have to get used to it.

Find another, better coach,...never see the other one again.  Consider trying an Auto for your husband, until he gets used to shooting the thing and gets the muscle memory and stance correct, then he will have no issues with an OU.

EDIT: Sorry, only Hamster had replied when I started spitting feathers and typing.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Elizabeth it sounds like you had a terrible time.

I would think that neither of the trainers were 'coaches' at all . It is such a misused word, they were probably instructors or worse still 'corporate trainers' ......people who have paid for the badge.

I do not believe in naming and shaming but if you want to send me a pm with the details I will look into it confidentially. If you also give me an idea of where you want to shoot, I will find out a good instructor or coach to help you that is in your area.

This should definitely not happen when people try the sport for the first time. Many things can be done to ensure an enjoyable first go at shooting. I am positive that people like Ed or Salopian or Brian Clegg (all coaches on here) will also have something to say about your experience.

As a coach I can only apologise for the experience you had.

 

[jake.keeling]

Oh dear, this is very sad and does not represent clay shooting as I know it.

 

[PhilS]

Absolutely outrageous!!!

I absolutely agree with all those posted above me.

Do not let your husband be put of by these two w**~~rs.

to answer your questions

1) Absolutely YES.  He can use a 20 bore, 28 bore, even 12 bore semi will be lighter.

2) No - see my description of them above!

3)No - see 2) above

Don't give up, there are plenty of good people out there.  If all else fails treat him to a weekend in Leicestershire and book in with Ed Solomons (or the others as mentioned by Nicola).

Good luck

Phil

 

[bigolbear]

I'm in no way qualified to comment on anything technical  i'm new to clay and very enthusiastic more so through the efforts of my instructor which is how it should be .

I'm disgusted that anyone could demean another by such inappropriate  behaviour ,

Personally i would ignore the misanthrope  and try another instructor who does the job himself without using an assistant , I'm sure Nicola or other members can recommend a professional , 

 

[ExSCA]

Outrageous stuff -  and definitely concur with the answers you've already had.

There are plenty of good coaches/instructors out there - sounds like you had some bad luck with these charlatans.

Take the offer from Nicola - she'll point you to someone better for your husbands confidence.

 

[Salopian]

ehb,

First of all could I say how dreadfully sorry I was to read your post.

Experiences like this can have done no good to anyone involved at all.

I will be very happy to coach your husband at a mutually convenient time, supply a suitable gun and all equipment, should he wish to try again.

If you would like to pm me with further details of your experience yesterday I am sure that I could allay any of your husbands misgivings.

I would think that neither of the coaches were very experienced or even qualified. 

 

[Jharrell]

I can only believe these two were not even Instructors let alone Coaches! Please try again with someone else as with the correct help he will enjoy it.

(Nic i have a badge and certificate) nthequiet:

 

[chubby]

The above statement was from me NOT Joe, forgot he was logged on.

 

[Julesy]

What a dreadful experience - EHB if it was a ground/instructor in the East Midlands Region, please contact me, I will raise it with the appropriate people in the region and get it investigated.

Your husband should have no problem lifting a gun - if it is the right gun for him. We have 10 year olds come for sessions with us who weigh considerably less than your husband.

Please encourage him not to give up and search out another instructor (who comes recomended). This is still a sport that you can enjoy together and hopefully it will be onwards and upwards (well it can't get much worse!!!)

 

[** Pending Removal **]

The above statement was from me NOT Joe, forgot he was logged on.

???

 

[EdSolomons]

If I can find an hour slot free when Im at sporting Targets then you are werlcome to it foc, am pretty much booked out till May but sure I can move a couple of things around for you if needed.

Let me know.