refing

[garry2749]

shot DTL for the first time on sunday and was virtually in shock when asked to ref/score ...at a registered shoot.

i reffed and sods law had a misfire.

at esp you have a ref/scorer on every stand more traps so higher costs yet it costs the same so why do they not have them for trap?

Answers on a post card.   :???:

 

[Dog Tyred]

Clarication required from the learned members.

today during the UT Selection shoot at Beverley I witnessed a shooter receive a slow released target and shoot and hit the target, following which the ref called "No target". The target was repeated and the shooter thankfully hit the repeat.

I ( and a couple of others after the round) thought this was a wrong call as even though the release was slow the shooter elected to shoot the target and therefore had accepted it as a valid target. Rule 7.12 states that all released clays must be shot at unless the shooters considers that the target does not correspond to 7.11 (immediate launch).

My understanding of the slow release rule (9.05.f) is that if the shooter believes he has had a slow release they must immediately lower their gun and advise the ref of the reason. The ref will then make the decision as to whether the release was within the time or not. There is nothing in the rules about a slow release that has been shot at but surely if a full clay has been released and the shooter shoots at they are deemed to have accepted the target irrespective of whether they hit it or not.

In the above the case (where the no target call was made after the clay had been broken) the shooter should have protested the 'no target' call and stated that he had accepted the target and the result should stand. 

As an aside I witnessed numerous slow releases over the weekend and only one refusal to shoot at it. However I did not witness any other ref call no target whether hit or miss!

Anyone able to clarify please.

DT

 

[ips]

um,,,,,, always difficult. Its a brave man who refuses a slow release, its a grey area BUT refs decision really, what if a bit came off the target ref sees it says no bird shooter shoots it then argues he accepted it ??? Target on both above scenarios was not propper so no target called, tough cookie.

that's how I see it.

ps

imagine being the ref and shooter misses second go, I rest my case again re shooters reffing

 

[40UP]

Our good friend Mutley ironically was subject to two "second barrel to count" rulings at the weekend. Succeeded with both using borrowed guns. -_-

 

[Dog Tyred]

um,,,,,, always difficult. Its a brave man who refuses a slow release, its a grey area BUT refs decision really, what if a bit came off the target ref sees it says no bird shooter shoots it then argues he accepted it ??? Target on both above scenarios was not propper so no target called, tough cookie.

that's how I see it.

ps

imagine being the ref and shooter misses second go, I rest my case again re shooters reffing

That is my point Ian. It was a full target, just slow release. The rule states that all full targets must be shot unless the shooter believes it to have been a slow release in which case he can refuse it. The shooter shot at and hit a full target before the No Target call so score established. That is how I read the rule anyway 

DT

 

[ips]

so the question is it down to the shooter to refuse it or the ref to call it ??

if the former then as I said its a brave man that does. I remember a shooter refusing ref says nothing wrong with it I will give benefit of doubt but if you refuse another I will call it lost. I think it was a rare occasion were "propper" refs were employed think it was SC many years ago EO ABT if memory serves correct but may have been OT.

ps

I think ref can call a whole target no bird for slow or incorrect flight etc etc. As ever refs decision

edit

22-26 d on page 26 cpsa ABT technical rules. If same as OT it seems you are correct Greg

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I have to admit that I'm a bit confused.  The UT selection shoot uses microphone releases and there was a slow pull?  ??    Or is some other kind of release used?  How slow is slow?

now  curiousity overwhelms me - - - - inquiring minds, etc

 

[ips]

charlie

it is very common in blighty to get slow release even though yes we use mics prob due to worn out traps and dodgy electrickery.

 

[Dog Tyred]

Charlie

with acoustic release the release should instant (literally on the P of Pull). If it (the clay) doesn't appear instantly ( due to a software glitch or mechanical hiccup) it is considered a slow release and the shooter can back out of it.

I think the rules talk about release within 1/10th of a second to be within regulation.

DT

 

[ips]

greg

I think Charlie is fully aware of the technology I think his post refers to the fact that slow release should not happen. In usa they presumably cater for many more paying customers than lill old Britain and therefore equipment is probably newer / better and instances such as slow pulls would not be tolerated.

forgive me if any of that is incorrect charlie

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I can't comment on the equipment stuff cuz I simply don't know.  For anything w/in a 1/10 sec I'd be hard pressed to notice or care and prolly not even be aware of it.  I've shot over some old bunkers (handset targets) with prolly similar computers, wiring, etc.  Seemed fine to me.  Wadda I know?  I'd guess there are those here who might object to a not-instant release but I've never shot with that crowd or at that level.  For ATA kinda things the situation is quite different and I'm not gonna bother getting into that.

I have to say that I don't think the shooter should be burdened with the responsibility of judging a target for legal.  I only say that since I'm not capable of assessing a target for all those considerations and still shooting it if it comes up OK.  If the target is slow, defective some way, whatever, the official should make that call regardless of what I have done.  I'm way OK with the way helice is shot with the official making the call no matter what the shooter has done.  I mean - see target shoot target.  Need to do it again?  Fine w/ me.  Only get one barrel?  Cool.  Get on with it.  

JMO of course but I'm fully aware of my skill level and likelihood of trips to the Oly scene or WorldCups of any kind.  Really simplifies my life.  YMMV