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Having spent lunchtime trawling through the CPSA averages (again) an even more worrying statistic has arrisen.

Nationally only 17 juniors put scores in for OT in the last issue and only 7 colts. The figures are similar for the other fast trap disciplines 10 juniors/6 colts for UT and 30 juniors/16 colts for ABT.

In fact Harry (DT junior) is only colt in Stafforshire posting scores in OT, ABT and UT for the whole issue and there is only 1 Staffs junior shooting the same disciplines. Should be easy to make the county team then  !!!! In fact Harry is now Staffs Colt ABT champion :)

Not looking good for the future of trap is it??

DT

 
ips said:
Er no
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At this present time I cannot see things improving anytime soon either. Unless the fast disciplines are brought into line with sensibility, then fast trap may have a very limited future indeed! It would seem that even ABT is not the "Ball Trap" that we used to shoot! Those governing body numpties have much to answer for Ian!

 
Have the regulation target speeds (distances) really changed that much?  Could this be more a case of the grounds do not have the target field properly defined and setting the targets by some intuitive method?

I know the one bunker that is nearest me is like that.  In fact, I'd bet some vital body parts that the machines have never even been zeroed. It is sorta circus trap and I just don't even bother to shoot it.  And I cannot tell you how incredibly frustrating that is.  Just writing this pisses me off.

ah, well

Charlie

 
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Charlie

yes the abt speed has increased to ot speed the low target and the high have both increased as in both now higher. You are correct in a way though as many grounds seem to put whatever they like on and call it abt whereas it may as well be called sport trap. How hard can it be for grounds to set targets at the current correct settings ?

Even ot lately seems to have become harder wherever you shoot it and thats not just from me. The statistics on Cpsa scores will confirm that either targets are harder or a lot of us are just getting older and crapper

 
dont know if its me but i have shot ut at cloudside to get used to trap shooting for a big ot comp coming up,but went to garlands for proper ot targets and the speed seamed to be twice as fast at garlands.today i went back to cloudside and my timing was that much out i had to hold lower than the trench to get my timing something like right.Im not a trap shooter and would think that a lot of time and money would be needed to get ok at it let alone good.

 
paul bailey said:
dont know if its me but i have shot ut at cloudside to get used to trap shooting for a big ot comp coming up,but went to garlands for proper ot targets and the speed seamed to be twice as fast at garlands.today i went back to cloudside and my timing was that much out i had to hold lower than the trench to get my timing something like right.Im not a trap shooter and would think that a lot of time and money would be needed to get ok at it let alone good.
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Yes lots of time and money indeed! And just when you think you are there it jumps up and kicks you in the arse!!
 
I've always wondered about the motivation behind the changes in OT.  I mean, do the runners have to run on pebble tracks cuz they're getting too fast?  Do vaulters have to use wooden pole cuz they're going too high.  Should gymnasts perform on concrete floors so they don't get so tricky?  Why aren't all swimming events in open water?

Why do rifle shooters get to wear the gumby suits?  Why not just a vest like the shotgunners have to.

Why is "too difficult for normal humans" the criteria?  Are tie scores the only reason and if it is who cares?  So there's a shootoff.  There are shootoffs now.  BFD, right?

Can anyone with a functioning brain actually believe that 76m targets and 24gm loads aren't difficult enough?  Have those same people ever tried shooting it?

just saying ..............                      

like cut the crap and get on w/ it

JMO of course

Charlie

 
Spot on observation and analogies Charlie. Exactly how many of us feel in blighty.

 
ips said:
Spot on observation and analogies Charlie. Exactly how many of us feel in blighty.
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+1 mate!! Most of us mere mortals cannot see why things have to get harder by the year, it's all total crap!!!! It's almost as if they want to make it a game for supermen only!!!!!

 
Of course it has to be said that C&D class can shoot 28g if they prefer (not in selections and some other terms and conditions apply) but that is mainly for "have a go" sorts who don't want to buy a slab of 24g just for a round or two. Even with 28g those pesky modern OT targets seem to be hard beggers to hit for (as les says) us mere mortals, and that is why some of us prefer the slightly easier but still challenging ABT which brings us full circle as to the case that ABT is now as hard. Anyway we have been down that road many times so we don't want to get too side tracked but ABT was and still should be easier than OT and we should all be given at least a fighting chance of hitting more OT targets than we currently are and that, I suspect is not neccasarily because OT schemes are harder now or that 24g effects us a great deal but that OT targets are not set correctly or shall we say are set to the extreme particularily at major events and selections. One has to suspect therefore that the opinion with the powers that be is too weed out the also rans in favour of finding the very very best OT shooters to represent GB. This is fine and makes perfect sence in some ways however the problem is that if that is the case and its only my opinion (but based also on a few conversations with others) then why bother advertising have a go days and trying to promote the discipline if the only ones who will ever really make it are the ones lucky enough to have a huge wedge of cash to shoot hundreds a day or those that become funded / sponsored. Some of us have no intention of Olympic status we just enjoy shooting a demanding discipline but would like to be able to enjoy it and not get too demoralised in the process that is why some of used to enjoy ABT. I think we have to accept that OT is exactly that, an Olympic discipline aimed at only the very very best shooters. So with that in mind please can we have our ball trap back.

 
I have to admit that I've not compared the codified OT schemes from then an now, but if a ground has legitimate bunkers then the schemes should be in use.  I wasn't aware that some are more difficult.  I thought that the idea was to simply re-distribute a set of standard targets, granted a large set of course, thru a number of alternate assemblies.  I'm not sure I see an evil hand in there gathering the most difficult into one or another approved scheme. But then I have never bothered to analyse them either.

" I think we have to accept that OT is exactly that, an Olympic discipline aimed at only the very very best shooters."

I don't agree with that at all.  That is not true of anything else at the Olympics.  The best of each discipline are gathered at the Olympics but the disciplines do not change for that venue and are not designed for that venue alone.  Why should shooting?

JMO of course -  and the discussion changes nothing as shooters and/or rational minds are not obviously not allowed into the process.  

Occurs to me as well, I could be wrong, that shotgun Olympic stuff is the only discipline where superlative performances by superlative performers are penalized by rule changes.  Or did I say that already?  Tho the swimmers did lose the full body suits.

Charlie

 
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Charlie, You are right of course! In fact by making OT so difficult, it is like saying that Olympic swimming should be against a strong current because the swimmers must be "the best". The whole Olympic shooting thing is becoming a total farce. In the UK most trap shooters start their trap shooting careers on DTL, and I guess in the USA it would be ATA trap?  Eventually some end up shooting OT, whilst others don't bother for various reasons.  So I wonder how the Italians get into OT? They are really heavily into OT in Italy as you know, but surely they don't start off their trap shooting careers in OT, or do they? If they do, well it must be a baptism by fire that's all I can say!!!! Do they have any of the slower trap disciplines in Italy, or do they just shoot OT and UT?

 
I believe Italians only have ot les but i might be wrong.

 
Dont Spose they know any different but hard work as you say. Maybe there ot at club level is softer i know that isnt the case at lonato but maybe generally.

 
Here's a discussion from a US site.  I debated the wisdom of posting the link since I find some elements of it embarrassing, but I wasn't responsible for the warts so here they are.  Obviously some misinformed folks, and prejudicial as well, and sometimes sad to say typical.  You may not care to burden yourselves w/ reading.  Takes a while to lite up.  It will also give you some hints about ATA that are not all that pretty and/or satisfying.  And you think you have problems hahaha

Charlie

http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/thread.cfm?threadid=327812&Messages=110

 
Interesting reading seems you have similar issues to us

 
ips said:
Interesting reading seems you have similar issues to us
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Yes, it seems very familiar mate! So it's not just us miserable old gits over here that are moaning about things!!! Maybe EVERYONE is moaning all over the planet, well maybe the Italians could be the exception of course.

 
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