GB SELETION SHOOTS NO PRIZE MONEY THIS YEAR?
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ginger gun
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have u been looking elvis!!!
WhoStoleAllTheTrapSprings?
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The biggest concern with GB Fitasc is that it is unsustainable at the moment, It's sad that there isn't going to be a junior team for Portugal, I think that just shows that BICTSF's attempts to get new juniors in have failed !
Steve Lovatt
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For what it's worth the English Open at the weekend ran without a prize fund but using the Options 'bet on yourself' method. John Heagren took £70 home for winning A class, Pet Easton £30 for Ladies. I think if a few more people known what it was a few more may have been interested, to be fair it wasn't until it was worked out on Sunday night that I really got my head around it.
For those that don't know about it, basically everyone shot BO for want of a better description. All competing for honours and trophies. If you fancied your chances in either your category or class (or both!), you bet £10 on whichever or both.
So John Heagren for example stated £10 on my class, we ticked the A class box and took his tenner. Pet Easton chose a tenner on Ladies.
At the end of the shoot, the highest score in A that had taken an 'option' won the pot. In this case £70 (so 7 people had taken the 'option', Pet took £30 because 3 ladies had taken the 'option'.
Juniors this time only saw one person put his money down so he got his tenner back!
One guy chose Veterans and his class so that cost him £20.
Only what's paid in per your class or category is paid back out.
To be fair, it worked well and those that like to play to the pressure had their chance to do so. :wink: for those that wanted to shoot without worrying about the 'competition prize fund' they did their thing too. No pressure either way.
Horses for courses and all that.
Ally
For those that don't know about it, basically everyone shot BO for want of a better description. All competing for honours and trophies. If you fancied your chances in either your category or class (or both!), you bet £10 on whichever or both.
So John Heagren for example stated £10 on my class, we ticked the A class box and took his tenner. Pet Easton chose a tenner on Ladies.
At the end of the shoot, the highest score in A that had taken an 'option' won the pot. In this case £70 (so 7 people had taken the 'option', Pet took £30 because 3 ladies had taken the 'option'.
Juniors this time only saw one person put his money down so he got his tenner back!
One guy chose Veterans and his class so that cost him £20.
Only what's paid in per your class or category is paid back out.
To be fair, it worked well and those that like to play to the pressure had their chance to do so. :wink: for those that wanted to shoot without worrying about the 'competition prize fund' they did their thing too. No pressure either way.
Horses for courses and all that.
Ally
Most grounds that run FITASC shoots have ample traps at their disposal, so there is no extra expense to them there.
Referees are a major expense, why could the squads not referee themselves?
The only costly expense is the slow rate of competitors through the layouts.
Most grounds that run good fitasc events have enough ground and traps at their disposal to also run a normal 100 birder at the same time.
I think possibly the root cause is the high entry fee and that is sometimes dictated by greed of the grounds.
Referees are a major expense, why could the squads not referee themselves?
The only costly expense is the slow rate of competitors through the layouts.
Most grounds that run good fitasc events have enough ground and traps at their disposal to also run a normal 100 birder at the same time.
I think possibly the root cause is the high entry fee and that is sometimes dictated by greed of the grounds.
tiptop
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So whats the difference between fitasc and sporting pots?
Sporting you have the option of comp ususally £5 extra or birds only.
If there is a pot that you can put £10 in and gamble on winning in each class or going birds only, whats the problem with prize money?
Ok sporting may be paid down to third, and and fitasc winner takes all in class but surely thats down to enrty size,or the money in each pot.
Or am i missing something here? (not just the clays)
Sporting you have the option of comp ususally £5 extra or birds only.
If there is a pot that you can put £10 in and gamble on winning in each class or going birds only, whats the problem with prize money?
Ok sporting may be paid down to third, and and fitasc winner takes all in class but surely thats down to enrty size,or the money in each pot.
Or am i missing something here? (not just the clays)
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Ian,
It's blue and very clear.
Perhaps you could give us the benefit of your opinion on a successful format for fitasc.
tiptop,
Your not missing anything apart from that if you want decent prize money then the competitors will have to pay it in to a pot themselves.
It's blue and very clear.
Perhaps you could give us the benefit of your opinion on a successful format for fitasc.
tiptop,
Your not missing anything apart from that if you want decent prize money then the competitors will have to pay it in to a pot themselves.
tiptop
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Is that not what the sporting shooters do when they are at grounds that do not have a guarenteed £100-£150 in each class by opting for competiton rather than birds only.
As you are probably aware of some grounds pay £100- £150 each class depending on the amount of entries so not always gaurenteed, unless sponsored, so the prize pot is dependant on the amount that enter the competition and will vary accordingly.
I do agree that the root cause of low numbers may be the cost of the entry fee and no prize pot.
But as Steve say's horses for courses
It's pay and play really for what ever floats your boat, its your/our choice what ever discipline anybody decides to shoot.
As you are probably aware of some grounds pay £100- £150 each class depending on the amount of entries so not always gaurenteed, unless sponsored, so the prize pot is dependant on the amount that enter the competition and will vary accordingly.
I do agree that the root cause of low numbers may be the cost of the entry fee and no prize pot.
But as Steve say's horses for courses
It's pay and play really for what ever floats your boat, its your/our choice what ever discipline anybody decides to shoot.
Hawkeye
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The English Skeet Club has run similarly since it started yrs ago, except that everyone shoots comp, so there is £5 / shooter in the class prize fund to pay out 1,2,3 etc as well as the option of betting £5 on yourself to win your class. 40 entries in a class = £200 prize fund + possible £200 class win prize. Competition entry fee is usually £28 - £30 , the option £5 is extra.
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tiptop
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Why then is it FITASC is not run like this?
In sporting you have the 'option' to shoot comp(£5 for the pot) or birds only.
I think the main gripe here is the cost of the initial entry fee and nothing going in the pot.
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With boring regularity the subject of cost and shooting Fitasc surfaces yet again.
Prize money is killing the discipline and Steve has gone some way towards rectifying the problem and I agree wholeheartedly with what he is doing. Equipment is expensive and where space is at a premium, solely relying on Fitasc competitions as a source of income is not an option open to many shooting grounds. Finding ways to reduce costs for customers has to be a good thing. Shooting Fitasc will always cost more in comparison to other disciplines, there must always be referees for instance, mayhem would ensue if there were none. If shooting, to you, is all about cost then you are in the wrong sport. Try justifying the cost of a shooting lesson at £120 per hour, plus clays, plus cartridges, plus VAT and then look at the cost of shooting the best sport ever designed for a shotgun.
The sun is still shining beautifully by the way.
Prize money is killing the discipline and Steve has gone some way towards rectifying the problem and I agree wholeheartedly with what he is doing. Equipment is expensive and where space is at a premium, solely relying on Fitasc competitions as a source of income is not an option open to many shooting grounds. Finding ways to reduce costs for customers has to be a good thing. Shooting Fitasc will always cost more in comparison to other disciplines, there must always be referees for instance, mayhem would ensue if there were none. If shooting, to you, is all about cost then you are in the wrong sport. Try justifying the cost of a shooting lesson at £120 per hour, plus clays, plus cartridges, plus VAT and then look at the cost of shooting the best sport ever designed for a shotgun.
The sun is still shining beautifully by the way.
E
Emmsy
Guest
does fitasc cost more for refs? yes they are more expensive but you only need 1 per layout compared to 1 per stand for sporting?
clays cost the same, similar number of traps, blah blah blah
surely the only valid point is less shooters so the entry goes up to cover that lack of revenue compared with sporting.
i enjoy fitasc but at virtually twice the price of ESP i would rather do 2 ESP a month than 1 fitasc, sadly we cant all afford to it as and when it pleases, you only have to look at who does shoot it regular and its generally the older people with excess time and money to spare.
never paid for a lesson in my life, and at that sort of price i certainly couldnt afford to!
clays cost the same, similar number of traps, blah blah blah
surely the only valid point is less shooters so the entry goes up to cover that lack of revenue compared with sporting.
i enjoy fitasc but at virtually twice the price of ESP i would rather do 2 ESP a month than 1 fitasc, sadly we cant all afford to it as and when it pleases, you only have to look at who does shoot it regular and its generally the older people with excess time and money to spare.
never paid for a lesson in my life, and at that sort of price i certainly couldnt afford to!
tiptop
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Exactly that!
We here about trying to get people involved in the sport,
and get existing shooters to do more types of shooting, but unless you are well off and have time on your hands, most people only have a cerain amount of disposable income to enjoy what ever sport they can.
I guess the differential makes sense - whereas a Sporting shoot can put 100-150 shooters through a ground in a day, a FITASC shoot has far less throughput - I cannot remember the maximum shooters than can get through a 1 day FSP event under new and old system - I know that Wylye told me this before, it is a far less than a 10/12 stand sporting shoot can deliver.
The endless cups of tea drunk by the FSP competitors will not make the differential up. I agree with Wylye - 'the best sport ever designed for a shotgun'
The endless cups of tea drunk by the FSP competitors will not make the differential up. I agree with Wylye - 'the best sport ever designed for a shotgun'
Bob_P
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I've only started shooting FITASC in the last few months, and love it. If there was more opportunity I would shoot it over normal sporting every time.
"clays cost the same, similar number of traps, blah blah blah"
My understanding is that to shoot new system, you need 15 traps per parcours, 4 parcours, so 60 traps. With ESP 10 stands of 2 traps equals 20 traps, some grounds use less, and some a few more. But I think that FITASC needs at least twice as many traps. In addition, you have effectively 12 hoops (stands) on a FITASC layout, with each stand large enough to have 5 traps on it. My conclusion is that FITASC also needs a lot more room that many sporting layouts.
I'm sure I'll be corrected if I've done the sums wrong.
Never seeing the same target more than twice comes at a price, but I much prefer that, over trying to straight 5 of the same pairs in a row.
"clays cost the same, similar number of traps, blah blah blah"
My understanding is that to shoot new system, you need 15 traps per parcours, 4 parcours, so 60 traps. With ESP 10 stands of 2 traps equals 20 traps, some grounds use less, and some a few more. But I think that FITASC needs at least twice as many traps. In addition, you have effectively 12 hoops (stands) on a FITASC layout, with each stand large enough to have 5 traps on it. My conclusion is that FITASC also needs a lot more room that many sporting layouts.
I'm sure I'll be corrected if I've done the sums wrong.
Never seeing the same target more than twice comes at a price, but I much prefer that, over trying to straight 5 of the same pairs in a row.
