Tim Greenwood Gunsmith - gun fitting and more!

[Nicky T]

Evening all,

Gun fitting is probably one of the more talked about subjects on discussion on shooting forums, both in terms of the necessity, how best it should be carried out and perhaps most importantly who is best to undertake any work required to get your chosen gun to fit.

Having done a significant amount of research and endured an equal portion of deliberation, I booked a day off from the 9-5 and journeyed down to visit Tim Greenwood of Greenwood Gunsmiths (www.greenwoodgunsmiths) at his premises in Tunbridge Wells, Kent (approx 4 1/2 hours each way from Manchester!). FYI Tim works on an appointment basis only, so if you're planning on enlisting his help drop him a line in advance and agree a date to meet up face to face. As my shooting season for 2011 had come to an end, and i was due to move house and re-enter the world of paying a mortgage again, I coincided the visit with a time when i could afford to be without my gun for as long as it took h34r: Within 60 seconds of walking through Tims' door he had highlighted a significant area for improvement in my mount and stance and proceeded to explain exactly why correcting it was so important and the difference it could make to my shooting. We then discussed where I wanted to be with my shooting in terms of my aspirations and willingness to work hard to achieve it and I happily conceeded that if i can add even a single extra kill to my score card (that was attributed to the change) then i would consider the change worth it.

I could have left a happy chappy there and then, but having whetted my appetite, I was eager to discuss my options further and begin the process of fitting my Beretta 682 Gold E to me. To overcome my eagerness to lower my head to the stock rather than raise the stock to my cheek Tim suggested fitting a Jones Adjuster system and Kick-Eez Recoil pad and simulated the position that it could be set in by removing my existing pad and taping it with masking tape to the end of my stock. He then asked me to ignore the "unusual" position of the pad and mount the gun, which to my surprise came up effortlessly and on the money. Repeating the mount 10-15 times i noticed the physical difference in the mount and recognised that this wasn't going to be an overnight success story but a journey of enlightenment to get where I wanted, if i wanted to go down that route. Further examination of the 682 revealed that it had actually been cast for a left-hander; something that I had never noticed, nor been made aware of before After an hour or so in Tim's company I had already decided to leave the 682 with him for a full strip and service, recast of the stock and to have a Jones Adjuster system fitted. Approximately a month later this is what came back:

A view of the Jones Adjuster from above:

A view of the Jones Adjuster from the side:

Having received the gun back i was eager to try it out and went out and shot it the very next day at the Manchester Clay Shooting Club Members Competition shooting an 86 and winning my class. Not to shabby for a first run out. Subsequent shoots and practice sessions were all favourable and the "heads up" position that the Jones Adjuster offers me has definitely enhanced my consistency both in terms of mounting the gun and convincingly breaking targets.

Six months further on and I had a window of opportunity to visit Tim again thanks to working an hour or so away from him for a long weekend in mid March 2012. A quick email to Tim secured the necessary appointment and I was all set B) After the customary brew and chat, in which i discussed my observations from having used the Jones Adjuster for some time, I commented on how the gun felt and what the next phase would be. All of my comments were met with a rye smile from Tim, affirming his belief that its the shooter who decides when the next change is necessary, not the gunsmith! My main critique was that it felt as though my trigger hand was slipping off the bottom of the grip, due to the raised position of the stock and consequently grip. Tim once again discussed the options and having explain the work required and the reasons that it was necessary, asked whether i would be able to leave the gun with him or if i would be taking it away with me that day. With a couple of registered shoots planned (in good company) at the end of that week and the Cheshire Shield looming the following week i was keen to leave with the gun in hand, so to speak, so Tim agreed to carry out as much of the work required then and there so long as i sent the gun back down to him when i had a couple of weeks without shooting so that he could fit the 15mm Ebony extension and finish that stage of the process.

20 minutes of grinding, filing, mounting and evaluating later this was the result:

The right hand side of the stock after grinding:

The left hand siode of the stock after grinding:

Whilst it doesn't look the prettiest, it felt 100 times better that the original set up, especially with the reduced palm swell and the ability to correctly grip and hold the gun whilst shooting. I simply couldn't wait for Sunday to roll round so snuck off to MCSC on Wednesday to shoot 100 practice with the new ground manager; Mr Moss. I shot well enough to know that I was going to enter the comp at both Grange Farm and Kegworth on the Sunday instead of being a penny-pinching Birds Only type of guy. 84 and 81 proved i was right - both scores about my CPSA average so all in all well chuffed with the scores and most importantly how i shot. My next opportunity to shoot the new set up was at the Cheshire Shield held at Hodnet on Thursday 29th March 2012. 92 ex. 100 saw me take my first ever Guest High Gun as well as being a part of the Winning Guest Team; The Clay Crunchers (Thanks to Mr Potter for putting that together!) and i knew that investment both in time and money had already paid off. I even called Tim to thank him and let him know the result!

With number two bambino looming i knew that April was going to be a "quiet" month for the bang bang, so decided to post the 682 back to Tim to have the Ebony grip extension fitted. James Henry Truter arrived on the 17th April happy and healthy and i'm eagerly awaiting the gun back - hopefully in time for the Coley/Bloxham Session at MCSC on Thursday 26th April!

Tim's ability to explain the processes involved in fitting the gun to the individual (at least in my experience) have made me feel completely at ease and confident in his ability and quality of work throughout the process. At no point did I ever feel that there was a hard sell or a scenario where i was pressured into agreeing to any work in any specified amount of time - infact completely the opposite; Tim was adamant that i should shoot my 682 for at least 6-12 months at each stage of the process to fully experience each change and decide as and when any further change was necessary, all prior to finishing the woodwork once and for all at the end of the process - a stage which i am relishing but not yet close to!

Price wise Tim isn't the cheapest, but he's also far from what i would consider expensive. It is amongst the best value for money I have spent on my shooting (aside from coaching sessions with messers Clegg, Bloxham and Nutbeam) and i thoroughly enjoy the fact that Tim still maintains the old school system of "send me a chequie when you've got it back and are happy with it!" Infact i have no qualms divulging what i've spent thus far:

Stock re-casting £60

Full strip down, clean, regrease and service £130

Jones Adjuster and Kick-Eez System fitted and set up: £200

Grip profiling and Ebony Extension: £60

Re-chequering and oil finishing: £100

Running total: £550.

In summary I would not hesitate to recommend Tim's work and/or contacting Tim if you want his advice. I for one am glad that i did and am already benefitting from the experiences

To be continued....

(8/5/12 Edited to include additional pricing)

 

[Nicky T]

After what felt like months of waiting (which was actually 7 weeks i think) a Special Delivery package arrived today curtosey of Mr Greenwood

The 15mm Ebony grip extension had been fitted and the re-profiled palm swell and grip had now been custom chequered and lightly oil finished, so that i can use it until i'm ready (financially mainly ) to send it back to Tim to have it completely finished and the forend re-chequered to match the stock!

Here is a view of the left hand side of the stock:

Here is a view of the right hand side of the stock:

The chequering is top notch (in my humble opinion) and i'm particularly impressed with the attention to detail displayed in the palm swell area on the right hand side - breathtaking!

Have updated the initial post with the latest costings and included a running total!

Thanks for reading.

EDIT (10/10/12):

Since the above i've been shooting the gun "as-is" on a pretty constant basis. At the PW Charity shoot I was fortunate enough to be squadded with a current England shot and an ex-England shot, both of whom made a very similar comment about the amount of muzzle flip i was experiencing whilst shooting. Excess is an understatement!

Like all good advice, it sticks in your head, but sometimes it takes a while before you actually do anything about it. Well, September was when something finally clicked and my mission to conquer those comments began; off with the Jones Adjuster and on the phone to Mr David Izzard from Recoil Systems to pick his brains about his Green Pads and Isis Recoil Reducing Systems. After a few days of deliberation and a multitude of emails i bit the proverbial bullet and ordered a full Isis System with an 11mm Green Pad and sent to the stock off to Malcolm Jenkins (on Davids recommendation) for everything to be fitted and returned to me.

Malcolm and David were top notch and their service and attention to detail cannot be faulted in any way. The 682 stock currently looks like this:

Here is a slightly closer view (apologies for the glare):

The Isis system comes with four different strength sets of springs to account for shooters style of mounting their gun as well as the cartridges that they prefer to shoot. As standard it was fitted with the Medium springs but i have been able to swap them out for the light set without any issues (the lighter the springs the greater the ability to reduce recoil). In a month or so I will try out the extra light springs and see how i fare with those; worst case i can always swap back to the standard lights if necessary.

As i'm working down south later in the month i'm calling in at Tim's to talk about getting the stock finally finished and the forend finished to match over the winter break. Although things haven't panned out as initially intended, i'm much happier with the results thus far and the gun is getting better to shoot each and every time. Project almost complete!

 

[TobyM]

Good post and thanks for posting the fees so far. Gives us a better understanding of costs involved.

 

[ExSCA]

Agree - super stuff Nick (now reconsidering whether we need a 'like' button on the forum)

Bearing in mind you have been cleaning up on some shoots, it has obviously been worth the effort and expense.

 

[Salopian]

A very good post by Nick, Tim is a first class chap, with a wealth of experience.

Another very good gunfitter is John Wiseman of Wiseman's of Cannock.

It really is good to see people like Nick taking the time and trouble to share their success and to recommend good services that then become available to all of us.

 

[Nicky T]

Thanks for the very kind comments - I was a little dubious about whether or not others would be interested as I'm a believer that this level of gun fitting is a very personal affair and many might not see the need as many have already questioned why I chose to travel so far to see Tim; simply enough I wanted the best!

As mentioned above this is all very much work in progress and I reckon that I'm about half way towards the finished article. I will keep adding pictures at each stage of the process to my initial two posts to keep you all updated, along with a tally of the overall costs

Thanks again for your kind words.

p.s. Dave T feel free to add pictures of your masterpiece from Tim

 

[ExSCA]

Might have to have a chat about something for the main part of ShootClay on this... I think a lot of people would be interested.

 

[Darkside]

Nicky T........great post!!!

 

[Dave T]

Spoke to Tim this morning, and he's not taking anymore work on until June (at least) The exposure that he's had from the mags (and me and Nicky T expounding the virtues of his work) now has him snowed under But at least my gun's done

These are the shots of the initial work done by Tim last October. He encouraged me to alter the grip if I needed to.

February this year I took the gun back to him as I wanted more of a palm swell - which he sorted while I was there. I then left the gun with him - I received this back in March:

I have to confess I'm rather chuffed - I now have a Marmite gun! Scores are on the up and I'll never pick the wrong gun up from the rack again :wink:

I'll see you on Thursday in Manchester Nicky and congratulations on the new arrival

 

[Hamster]

That looks a cracking gun Nicky.

 

[Nicky T]

That looks a cracking gun Nicky.

Thanks Hammy

Tim mentioned that he thinks it has exhibition grade wood and is convinced that I'll be blown away when I see the finished article!

 

[GavB]

great report

 

[lhs]

Here we go some more of Mr Greenwoods handiwork with custom checkering my intial visit was to cure severe recoil, Jones adjuster and pad sorted that and a return visit to sort grip very helpful chap money well spent.

Still need to sort out monkey holding on to gun

 

[Nicky T]

Might have to have a chat about something for the main part of ShootClay on this... I think a lot of people would be interested.

If there's any info you need Matt please just ask

 

[Mike]

I thought that you would have put it in Clay Shooting magazine so that more people can see what was involved.

I was only pulling your leg on p.w. when I said "here's an article for the mag" when you first took your gun to be altered.

 

[Nicky T]

I thought that you would have put it in Clay Shooting magazine so that more people can see what was involved.

I was only pulling your leg on p.w. when I said "here's an article for the mag" when you first took your gun to be altered.

No worries at all Mike; who knows Tim might just do an article on it yet

 

[Mike]

No worries at all Mike; who knows Tim might just do an article on it yet

But he will get paid for that, not you.

 

[Jeremy Baker]

Cracking post.

I have the same gun with the Jones adjuster and adjustable stock.

Shame I'm a doof and can hit more than fifty percent!!

Eds working on that with me though.

 

[philpot]

I found that most interesting Nicky and I thank you for such a detailed breakdown. The costs seem very reasonable for all that expertise.

I love what has been done to your gun Dave, may I ask what sort of costs were involved to get the job done.

Phil