Well I don't shoot ESP or any other sporting discipline BUT I am curious as to why anybody would miss more targets simple because they changed their choke? I am serious about this if you are missing more close targets it is because you are not shooting the gun in the right place not that the choke is wrong. I think you need to just settle down, sort your head and stick with the gun as it is. Serious question have you thought of putting in some practice on purely the close stuff that is worrying you ? Practice will help you get the shot on the target I am sure. As an experiment take your gun and shoot it a pattern plate at your close range then get a gun choked at 1/2 an try it on the plate ... if there is more than 6 inches in the effective diameter I will be surprised ... you are not telling me that this is going to make a difference to whether you hit or miss a target.
Choking on a decision....
- Thread starter Iggy
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Interesting topic.
Weaned upon Trap targets so used MK 3800 & MK38 Full choked.
Went to Roundwood years ago just after Brian had won the British /English, he commented how tight my patterns were , but ' your smashing them okay' but you should really only need 1/4 & 1/2 maximum for Sporting . So I bought a multichoke , then a 1/2 &1/2 , then a 1/2 & 3/4 , then a new Trap gun , then a multichoke , and so it goes on . Choke is the invention of the Devil. Just have 3/4 & Full and a good cartridge that you are happy with and just shoot .
Anyone got a pattern photograph of open choked gun with a plastic wadded cartridge and a Full choked gun with the same cartridge pattern at 5-10 yards ?
Weaned upon Trap targets so used MK 3800 & MK38 Full choked.
Went to Roundwood years ago just after Brian had won the British /English, he commented how tight my patterns were , but ' your smashing them okay' but you should really only need 1/4 & 1/2 maximum for Sporting . So I bought a multichoke , then a 1/2 &1/2 , then a 1/2 & 3/4 , then a new Trap gun , then a multichoke , and so it goes on . Choke is the invention of the Devil. Just have 3/4 & Full and a good cartridge that you are happy with and just shoot .
Anyone got a pattern photograph of open choked gun with a plastic wadded cartridge and a Full choked gun with the same cartridge pattern at 5-10 yards ?
Some shells, typically fibres, are alleged to open up the pattern a bit - although I've never been very convinced that it's always the case - but, as I understand it, smaller shot sizes simply put more pellets into the same size pattern.
Such pattern testing as I've done has convinced the engineer in me that having more choke than you really need is a better bet than not having enough.
Such pattern testing as I've done has convinced the engineer in me that having more choke than you really need is a better bet than not having enough.
Correct on both point speaking from experience as well as some pattern testing. Never assume fibre throws appreciably more open also smaller shot sizes may deflect more due to say wind at 50 yards but 15 yds is a whole different ball game. I am sure it's possible to get shells that will throw close to LM with a 3/4 or Full but they're likely to be speciality loads rather than ones that simply suit (or not as the case may be) a certain tight constriction.
People are often heard to say that they shoot 1/4 or Full at everyfing but never ever miss because of choke - an impossible assertion to physically prove by them but easily dismissed using logic and available data.
Cosmicblue
Well-known member
I think there is a tendency to over-lead close-in targets (I do it routinely with close rabbits, I know I'm going to do it but can't stop myself-grrrr) and on a longer barrelled gun it seems to somehow exacerbate the issue though I don't really know why except that the same swing characteristics that make longer range crossers stupidly easy seems to work against me....
Chokes are for the most part a head game thing, yeah they do make a difference but a close in target might only see a difference of an inch or two of spread at best. My HPX DSR is fixed choke and I've never regretted it, not once, ever.
Chokes are for the most part a head game thing, yeah they do make a difference but a close in target might only see a difference of an inch or two of spread at best. My HPX DSR is fixed choke and I've never regretted it, not once, ever.
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
chippy
Well-known member
Not a photo but at nine yards a 1/2 choke was a 3" pattern and a skeet was 7" pattern
The difference between a 3/4 and Sk will be obvious and very useful too, the trick is to find a shell that is designed to open up, fortunately they are supposed to work best with tight chokes anyway.
GrrClark
Well-known member
If it helps your confidence on close in targets then use a splatty cartridge like the Fiocchi F3 Bior or Hull Pro Piston, both size 9 shot. It likely wont make any physical difference at all, but the confidence of knowing that you have a slightly wider pattern may just give you the confidence to swing the gun as you need to and as you used to.
Will Hewland
Well-known member
It's all been said above. On very close stuff, choke really doesn't make a difference as you need some distance to let a pattern spread. At about 20 yards, choke and cartridge choice can make a big difference, but the really close stuff, your choices are all about you feeling happy. At Southdown yesterday there was a rabbit at I reckon 12 yards. With 1/4 and 8 plas I missed one due to sloppy work. Got angry, face hard on stock, careful placement and the next one disappeared entirely. No substitute for diligence.
Personally, I think full choke is a possible disadvantage over a whole course, (but probably on the 20 yard stuff mainly) especially if you want to use just one cartridge. I would discuss making the gun half and half personally. (As I did with my Perazzi). At least this is still enough choke for anything and your mind will be unburdened.
Personally, I think full choke is a possible disadvantage over a whole course, (but probably on the 20 yard stuff mainly) especially if you want to use just one cartridge. I would discuss making the gun half and half personally. (As I did with my Perazzi). At least this is still enough choke for anything and your mind will be unburdened.
Iggy
Well-known member
Thanks Will.
Interesting what you say about getting angry....I was out yesterday, first few stands some trepidation and anxiety about the tight chokes and (suprise surprise) a few misses.
Got to the 3rd stand fast L-R close low quartering crosser followed by an O/R R-L looper....fab pair of targets and neither further than 20 yards out.
Not sure what changed in my head, but I just thought 'hunker down and f 'ing give it some' (apologies for the colourful language) and guess what?
I know you can't apply this to the more distant stuff, but it really changed my mindset for the rest of the morning. To be honest it worked all the way around apart from a stand with two O/R high driven.....normally I crush these with 1/4 and 3/8's biput I dropped 7 and it ruined my card.
I suspect I was overleading but the focus really fell apart on these targets for some reason.
On balance I think I'll stick with them as they are for now and play around with a few fibre 9's...see what happens
Interesting what you say about getting angry....I was out yesterday, first few stands some trepidation and anxiety about the tight chokes and (suprise surprise) a few misses.
Got to the 3rd stand fast L-R close low quartering crosser followed by an O/R R-L looper....fab pair of targets and neither further than 20 yards out.
Not sure what changed in my head, but I just thought 'hunker down and f 'ing give it some' (apologies for the colourful language) and guess what?
I know you can't apply this to the more distant stuff, but it really changed my mindset for the rest of the morning. To be honest it worked all the way around apart from a stand with two O/R high driven.....normally I crush these with 1/4 and 3/8's biput I dropped 7 and it ruined my card.
I suspect I was overleading but the focus really fell apart on these targets for some reason.
On balance I think I'll stick with them as they are for now and play around with a few fibre 9's...see what happens
Will Hewland
Well-known member
If you can, pattern a few to find one that actually spreads. They don't always obey the predicted rules.. express 21g fibres used to do it well.
Iggy
Well-known member
Quick update.....I really appreciate all the comments and advice, so thanks to all who replied.
Still undecided I contacted Anglo Italian on Sunday evening via Facebook....30 minutes later I got a reply (!) suggesting I call and speak to Kevin Gil on Monday morning which I did to discus the issue.
Kevin was very helpful, he confirmed that when developing the Supersport/MSpec with Guerini they collectively decided to bring them in as 3/4 and Full to give the owner the option to open up if they wanted to. He also confirmed the barrel walls were not actually thick enough to allow thin wall choke conversion.
He also confirmed that opening up the chokes would be perfectly do-able and would not affect the ten year warranty, which I thought was good news.
He recommended FJ Wiseman in Cannock to do the work if I wanted to go ahead which is where they would send the tubes if I went to them....again I thought this was very decent of him to say.
Out of interest I rang Wisemans and opening the tubes up from 3/4 and Full to 3/4 and 1/2 is about £120 inc vat total
Just need to decide what I want to do now, but thought I'd share the info.
Thanks all?
Still undecided I contacted Anglo Italian on Sunday evening via Facebook....30 minutes later I got a reply (!) suggesting I call and speak to Kevin Gil on Monday morning which I did to discus the issue.
Kevin was very helpful, he confirmed that when developing the Supersport/MSpec with Guerini they collectively decided to bring them in as 3/4 and Full to give the owner the option to open up if they wanted to. He also confirmed the barrel walls were not actually thick enough to allow thin wall choke conversion.
He also confirmed that opening up the chokes would be perfectly do-able and would not affect the ten year warranty, which I thought was good news.
He recommended FJ Wiseman in Cannock to do the work if I wanted to go ahead which is where they would send the tubes if I went to them....again I thought this was very decent of him to say.
Out of interest I rang Wisemans and opening the tubes up from 3/4 and Full to 3/4 and 1/2 is about £120 inc vat total
Just need to decide what I want to do now, but thought I'd share the info.
Thanks all?
Doctor Lecter
Well-known member
I have mentioned this many times , steve brightwell shoots 3/4 full and uses lots of 9s , however I think 1/2 1/2 is the way to go with a quality cartridge of your choice few 9s on mega close stuff ! sorted . less is more de clutter the mind !
chippy
Well-known member
Iggy
Well-known member
Yes, I wondered about this too....esp as the barrels (to me anyway) look 'normal'..Barrels not thick enough for thin wall conversion ! :huh:
I'm currently thinking over what to do with mine aswell, My barrels are fixed at 3/4 & 1/4. I've contacted a local gunsmith whose given me a price of £30 + Vat to change the 3/4 to 1/2.
ive also messaged Teague to see what there price is, but haven't heard back yet
ive also messaged Teague to see what there price is, but haven't heard back yet
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Will Hewland
Well-known member
If it were my gun, I'd get the tighter barrel matched to the 1/4, mainly because I believe in having them the same so you can forget them. 99.9% of the time 1/4 is fine with a decent plas wad cartridge.
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
If the dealer is telling you the barrels are too thin then the read between the lines part is that if you do the screw-in you void the warranty and Are On Your Own! Perazzi doesn't mess around - they say outright you mess with it, it ain't our problem.
just a thot
just a thot
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