Slightly different topic

[DoubleBarrelledDon]

Take a look at how things are in the USA and that will tell you a great deal. Team USA members are admired and respected by other shooters, even to the point of being badgered to sign autographs. Consequently ALL of their best shots work hard to get in the team and even those that are regular members still consider it an honour and privilege to do so rather than a right. Without wishing to denigrate the hard work of those in Team GB it would be wrong to say that our best shooters are in the team, as some of our very best refuse to take part in the selection process. If you don't have your best shots in a team then the kudos of being a team member is sadly reduced as people will say "well, its not our best team is it? after all XXXXXXX etc aren't in it"

USA Team members routinely give up their time to help run clinics to help get fresh people into the sport and to help in fundraising activities both for the team and other good causes, how many of our top shots would give up their weekends to do something similar? I hope that many of them would chose to do just that rather than picking up 2 or 3 high guns at registered shoots instead. Their team also understands the importance of sponsorship, so if a manufacturer such as Remington sends a pallet of shells to a World shoot then all of the team use those shells, whether sponsored individually by them or not.

Yes, America is a different market and the sport there is far bigger than it is here, but the population there is inherently patriotic whereas here in the UK sadly we do like to knock those that make it to the top or at least show indifference towards them. It would be nice to think that things might change, though I wont hold my breath.....

 

[bostonmick]

excuse my ignorance but if you qualify for a place on the England team who picks up the cost of travel and hotels etc.

 

[Hawkeye]

Just a question I have wondered about before having grown up in Wales, parents still living there and being English really.   Is it because you live there that you can shoot for Wales?

http://www.wctsa.co.uk/Sites/wctsa.co.uk/upload/file/membership%20form%202013.pdf

Your eligible to shoot for Wales if you have lived in Wales for 3 yrs

 

[ips]

Like Ed I am far from a team player and always been that way since I was a child, always been interested in lone sports and never ever a team. However I am proud to wear my North of England ABT badge as I have represented NOE a few times over the last 28yrs. If and I say if I ever make the England team I would be very proud to wear me little England badge and wear me posh blazer. Trouble is with England is that we have no identity as such, welsh do scots do irish do but IMO English do not. Contrary to popular belief getting a team badge even at county level is not easy in any discipline and as such should be a matter of pride.

 

[Nicky T]

Great topic

Very interesting to read the replies especially from Ed and Don; both of whom make very valid points.

Would love to see the England and GB teams get the recognition and support that they deserve. Changes of that magnitude have to happen from within the sport though, so i'd rather get involved albeit on a region level and do my utmost to facilitate some change than reside on the outside and lament about what should be.

 

[SoR]

If I may ?

To shoot for your Country or County is something to be very, very proud of, and it should be on everyone's " to do"  list.

At present, please remember we are the best in the World , just remember that and be proud. Let us get back to the days of having to fight for your place in any team, that can only make our sport stronger.

 Take a leaf out of my mate Peter Croft's book, the only GB team he hasn't represented is Hong Kong & the Faulklands. Be proud , be competitive, be good.

Pete this makes me want to polish me bulldog and walk down the high st in me union jack y fronts drinkin a cup of rosey lee...#patriotic...

 

[Les53]

Like Ed I am far from a team player and always been that way since I was a child, always been interested in lone sports and never ever a team. However I am proud to wear my North of England ABT badge as I have represented NOE a few times over the last 28yrs. If and I say if I ever make the England team I would be very proud to wear me little England badge and wear me posh blazer. Trouble is with England is that we have no identity as such, welsh do scots do irish do but IMO English do not. Contrary to popular belief getting a team badge even at county level is not easy in any discipline and as such should be a matter of pride.

I know what you mean Ian,I'm proud to wear my Dorset badge and cap,having shot OT for Dorset,albeit pretty badly! Well we all have bad days and I had loads this year and I reckon I may be getting to old for this OT lark.

 

[ehb102]

Could someone please point me to a handy web page explaining how to get selected for the England/British teams? I'm a little hazy on the details. 

ETA just found this: https://www.cpsa.co.uk/cpsa/ncsa-2014 You've only got another day to apply! 

So does this mean you can shoot the selection shoots and then apply? Or do you have to apply now to be considered next year? 

Selection at the County level is a lot easier for ladies. Breathing and shooting and willing seems to be the requirement in some places.

 

[maddmatt]

excuse my ignorance but if you qualify for a place on the England team who picks up the cost of travel and hotels etc.

Most of the cost is the shooters, an allowance is paid to you and your entry fee covered if you shoot for England at the Home Internationals, however I believe you have to pay for the shooting vest and track suit but I am not sure on that. If you shoot for Team GB then the entry is covered, everything else is your cost, sometimes if the fund raising has been successfull there could be a small amount paid back to team members.

In USA it is completely different, they have a dedicated and salaried fund manager whose sole responsibility is to fund the USA team. If she fails she is removed and replaced, so far their team have $430,000 in the bank, more then enough to ensure the team is well dressed, can fly to all the events, stay in decent hotels and don't pay for any practice.

 

[Hamster]

Most of the cost is the shooters, an allowance is paid to you and your entry fee covered if you shoot for England at the Home Internationals, however I believe you have to pay for the shooting vest and track suit but I am not sure on that. If you shoot for Team GB then the entry is covered, everything else is your cost, sometimes if the fund raising has been successfull there could be a small amount paid back to team members.

In USA it is completely different, they have a dedicated and salaried fund manager whose sole responsibility is to fund the USA team. If she fails she is removed and replaced, so far their team have $430,000 in the bank, more then enough to ensure the team is well dressed, can fly to all the events, stay in decent hotels and don't pay for any practice.

What was that someone said about the US ruining shooting games? :abe:  You gotta hand it to them here.

 

[ips]

Madmat is correct you get a small allowance but budget for a couple of hundred on the 80s retro shell suit and blaser etc which you have to buy to wear once a year

That's England team not sure about gb but one assumes it will cost as everything shooting related does as you know by now

ps- i am still waiting for my team member dosh from NOE abt team shoot 2 months ago

 

[Growl]

Pete this makes me want to polish me bulldog and walk down the high st in me union jack y fronts drinkin a cup of rosey lee...#patriotic...

Don't forget your socks n sandals Steve

 

[Angelfire]

excuse my ignorance but if you qualify for a place on the England team who picks up the cost of travel and hotels etc.

If you start with the assumption that it will cost you a great deal of brass to qualify for the England team, in entry fees, shells, fuel costs, meals and maybe Hotel bills as well - whatever amount you get for representing England will only be a minuscule fraction of what it has cost you. When we shot in Ireland for instance, we received a contribution towards the Ferry fare. True story.

But there again I would have done it for no reward at all anyway, and walked over hot coals in bare feet to collect my England Badge. It did mean that much to me.

Phil*

 

[SoR]

Wellington boots ill have you know gra none of that foreign mullarky

 

[bostonmick]

If you start with the assumption that it will cost you a great deal of brass to qualify for the England team, in entry fees, shells, fuel costs, meals and maybe Hotel bills as well - whatever amount you get for representing England will only be a minuscule fraction of what it has cost you. When we shot in Ireland for instance, we received a contribution towards the Ferry fare. True story.

But there again I would have done it for no reward at all anyway, and walked over hot coals in bare feet to collect my England Badge. It did mean that much to me

I asked the question not on a is it worth going for basis my grandfather used to shoot for the irish republic team some 60 years ago paid for everything himself no sponsors in them days he was a farmer so had a little control on his working life. unfortunately I am not good enough to qualify but my grandson is more than capable and i was interested as I would be happy to pay towards his shooting for county and country but as I am not of unlimited funds the cost is important...  

 

[Darkside]

For me Matt I don't like what FItASC has become. It used to be a real test of target killing ability, you had to deal with every target under the sun, and WORK for each kill. It has been watered down over the years (certainly internationally) to blink and you miss it type targets. I remember when 21-22 was a real achievement on a layout. 21-2 is now a disaster and pretty much puts you out of the race. It's closer to skeet. Yes you still need to hit them if they are easier and all that but the technical challenge isn't there anymore. I think it's a shame as it has the potential to be a fantastic test of a shooters ability and something to aspire to over years; master that and you must really be at the top level. Now it has been dumbed down like lots of things in life to make people feel better about themselves, and what's even worse is when people like Steve L do put on a great testing shoot like how it used to be, people moan it's hard and they can't shoot big scores. You can't shoot big scores because you aren't good enough and need to improve, that problem lays with you not the targets. If people apply themselves they can achieve pretty much what they want but now it seems most can't be bothered. You see similar with some people in sporting, just shooting soft grounds and moaning when a shoot gets won on 90-91 but fortunately they are in the minority and can be spotted a mile away.

It's a general attitude I guess but for me FITaSC has lots its way. The 40 yard rule is in my mind laughable. When it goes back to being an achievement to hit 90 as opposed to a disaster ill think about having a go again! Might do some majors in this country but stuff abroad is really not for me. I'm a big believer in dont like it, don't do it, which is how I plan on tackling the worlds and Europeans unless I really fancy a particular one.

Talking to some of the guys who have shot in the GB FITASC team, they all say the same about a lot of the targets abroad, it's more of a "don't miss" than "try to kill", at times. Also the format, 4 days in a row that you have to be at the top of your game, you only shoot 2 x 25 Pacours a day, but you have to be able to switch it on and preform at your best each day for those 50 birds. It could be argued that the standard of shooting is also higher than ever!!! Not all FITASC is easy, look at the top scores from the GB qualifier on the Saturday at Westfield this year, big targets in very strong winds and there was still a 90!!! Won on 181. No easy qualifying shoot.

From what I'm lead to belive, the home international FITASC can be pretty stiff, not just the targets, but the fact it's a 6 man team, 5 scores to count...no hidding place!!! High gun last year in N Ireland, 92, 2nd 91, 3rd 88 ladies high gun 79 vets Stirzaker 84.

The home international sporting in N Ireland this year was a fantastic course of targets!!! Not an easy course by any means, still won on 95 when nobody thought there was a 95 out there, not many shandy that could be counted as 'easy card fillers'. My first cap for Scotland, massive underperformance by myself on the day, I was beating myself up in the car park about it as I felt I'd let the team down with such a sloppy preformance...one of the England team came over and told me, "...don't worry about it, it's your first cap, the real prize is to qualify to be here in the first place, the honor of representing your country is the reward for all the traveling, effort and expense you've gone through, shooting good enough scores at all the team qualifiers to get here!!! Has shooting this made you more determined to make the team again next year?"

"Yes, I want is so bad it hurts, I want to have a chance to shoot a good score that counts next time...if there is a next time!!!"

"That's what it's all about!"

Was I proud to represent my country? Yes I bloody was!!!

Next years home sporting home international is in Scotland, I think there will be much stronger compitition for team places as some of our best shots have been shooting Olympic disciplines this year with the commonwealth games being held in Glasgow next year, some of our best sporting shots didn't fancy the expense of traveling to N. Ireland, I think they will be going for team places as it's at home, I know I will have to 'up my game' to be there. I plan to use the winter to save some money up so as to fund next years qualifying campaign and to concentrait on training/coaching for the new season. I recon I need to up my average 8-10 (maybe more) on my BEST 5 scores next year to qualify, is it possible...I'll know this time next year!!!

To me, as far as representing my country at clay pigeon shooting, the Scottish FITASC home international team is my dream goal, 6 man team with 5 scores to count, there is REAL compitition between home nations, only the best get to play there!!! To qualifying to shoot for the GB FITASC team would be the ultimate goal (hey, I am aloud to dream!!!), finishing in the top ten at a world FITASC would be/is a massive achievement and I applaud anyone who has managed to do this, 'easy' FITASC targets or not, you still have to hit them!!!

 

[Wonko the Sane]

What was that someone said about the US ruining shooting games? :abe:  You gotta hand it to them here.

You all should know that USA Shooting has had some terrible upsndowns.  Doing good ups right now tho, thankfully.  Some decent public support, industry support and team member efforts, for the team, have all been on the upswing.  But there was a time not long ago when that was certainly not the case.  And the obvious lesson is that it can happen it you want it enough.

 International shooting is NOT big in the US, but USA Shooting has made it work anyway.  And after what they went thru it took some dedicated effort to make it happen - - but they did.  So can you if you want it.

I don't feel bad about the few dollars I send them every year and I have several years worth of stickers on the gun case.  And I buy their promo items.  If they have the energy to market as well as shoot, I can easy pop a few $ to help out.

JMO of course

Charlie

 

[jwpzx9r]

Charlie

I know nothing about actual shooting internationals. I am but a humble duffer so it does not effect me but when you talk about travel in the US you are talking, in terms of distance covered, higher mileages than most shooters cover traveling over Europe to compete. Do International class shooters get the fee's paid to compete within the USA?  For example if you live in NY and have to travel to LA for a comp that's a fair distance to cover and you will have bills. I don't think there is a comparable traveling distance within any European countries to those that may have to be travelled by US shooters domestically!

 

[maddmatt]

Just beggars belief we can't manage the same level in this Country Charlie, shooting is very much an individual sport and it seems the goals of the individual are not compatible with the idea of Teams. Whether this would change if Team GB were funded to the same level as the Americans is debatable, the overiding consenus at shoots is, if you have the cash you will probably make the team, and the team is NOT the strongest we could pick, double whammy right there.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Just beggars belief we can't manage the same level in this Country Charlie, shooting is very much an individual sport and it seems the goals of the individual are not compatible with the idea of Teams. Whether this would change if Team GB were funded to the same level as the Americans is debatable, the overiding consenus at shoots is, if you have the cash you will probably make the team, and the team is NOT the strongest we could pick, double whammy right there.

I had the temerity to suggest that this could be the case a couple of weeks back on a different tack actually involved a member of the French shooting team... my god did the sh*te hit the fan then. I await the impending blitz... will it come on this occasion?