Birds Only or Competition?

[no.1topdog]

Yes and a hobby is not competition.

And that folks is my Eureka moment!   :biggrin:

No disrespect intended to anyone, but that has just made my decision not to re-join The CPSA next year. I do indeed shoot for a hobby, I just needed someone to tell me.

I can still happily shoot the big shoots like The Classic and The Shootclay Cup plus any normal registered shoot on a birds only basis that I chose. That is enough for me. I've chased all the Majors in the past, enjoyed them, but enjoy myself more now shooting when and where I like, without all the politics and subsequent fall-outs. I thought things may have changed during my period of absence but if anything it's now worse.

Before you ask, I still have membership of BASC which I will maintain, so will not be shooting uninsured. From now on shooting is something I want to be doing instead of being obliged to turn up for certain events.   :biggrin:

 

[Chipper]

[SIZE=medium]Personally i feel birds only should not be an option as this long term can affect the grounds with pay-outs and personally competition shooting should be just that ! and should have one fixed price making the prise pot through all the classes more attractive, and before everyone starts on thinking I’m not putting money in AA pockets, the money that’s invested competition wise in each class remains in that class, Personally  i agree with Tinker-bell it brings the ass twitching in when you’re in for a score and that can only be good for the competiveness, in AA for most of us the chance of picking up are very slim with talents like Martin Myers, Chris Childerhouse, Ed Solomon’s etc all competing at the top but there is no way i would feel i am competing unless i go 'competition' really can’t see the point may aswell shoot the local club shoots, and how many times do you see on the Clayshooting company emails with results and pay-outs where someone’s has gone birds only and there’s a 'OPPS' by the name where they would of won £100 or so ??? also how can averages count on the CPSA system when you have birds only and competition ? go competition and try to compete and if you pick up even better :hunter:   :nyam:  [/SIZE]

 

[Finners]

Yes and a hobby is not competition.

I can think of plenty of people who would strongly disagree with that statement. Ever been to a Gardening or Marrow growing Competition? Those people are vicious competitive I tells ya  :spiteful:

 

[Deershooter]

Well let's see if you lot get that upset again that you remove my posts

Birds only should be banned we pay to shoot a "registered competition " competition is winning prizes not practice it's not registered scores it's registered competition . If you don't like it don't go stick to the local unregistered clubs that shoot for fun .

Our governing body just don't have it right what other sport can you compete with a world champion in the same squad it's silly can you imagine me at 24 stone with no legs standing at the start of the 3000 m saying to Mo Farrow "going to give you a run for your money here Mo"

More should be done at club and county level Lincolnshire don't have any class prizes in most of there comps not even a badge foy your class it's wrong .

The big majors are just a cash generator for the CPSA fat cats who do nothing for the club shooter .

Each county should have funding from the main CPSA to incurouge club shooters to shoot registered comp not birds only .

 

[no.1topdog]

Birds only should be banned we pay to shoot a "registered competition " competition is winning prizes not practice it's not registered scores it's registered competition . If you don't like it don't go stick to the local unregistered clubs that shoot for fun .

By doing that you would then alienate shooters like me that have no urge to squabble over a few £'s of prize money, and cause ground owners to lose revenue as it would effectively ban me from shooting there.

If we are to encourage more people into shooting, and support the business of shooting grounds, we don't need a "closed shop" of events for exclusively all you experienced and serious competition shooters out there, apart from the obvious National/International events.   :biggrin:

"Competition Shooters" tend to lose sight of the fact that not everyone is motivated by Cash/Trophies/Status/Classification or Kudos. Some of us just like to shoot to challenge our own skills, or as practice for game shooting.  :biggrin:

 

[shredder]

By doing that you would then alienate shooters like me that have no urge to squabble over a few £'s of prize money, and cause ground owners to lose revenue as it would effectively ban me from shooting there.

If we are to encourage more people into shooting, and support the business of shooting grounds, we don't need a "closed shop" of events for exclusively all you experienced and serious competition shooters out there, apart from the obvious National/International events.   :biggrin:

"Competition Shooters" tend to lose sight of the fact that not everyone is motivated by Cash/Trophies/Status/Classification or Kudos. Some of us just like to shoot to challenge our own skills, or as practice for game shooting.  :biggrin:

Amen to that.

 

[Nimbusgb]

I suspect, @Deershooter, that your approach could severely limit the number of entrants in serious competition. BO or full competition, the 'rest of the field' are what makes it worthwhile for a grounds to put on a shoot. Without the rank and file plinking away at clays the kitchen wouldn't sell tea,coffee, bacon butties and cakes, there would be no money for ref's and it would not be worth putting on a layout for 20 or 30 top shooters. I'd go as far as to say that 'prizes' are simply an add on to an amateur shoot as opposed to BO being a detraction from it!

And therin lies the problem ........ We have strong opinions at both ends of the spectrum and both need to be accomodated!

There are quite a few sports where the average Joe can line up shoulder to shoulder with the creme de la creme of the sport.

 

[Sian]

Deershooter,

As stated I don't care either way whether I have to shoot competition or whether I get to choose competition or birds only - this does not psychologically affect the way I shoot - I shoot to challenge myself.  Maybe if I ever get good I'll be more competitive who knows.   I don't see why if you are not shooting competitively you need to only shoot unregistered clubs.  No disrespect to these clubs, I've shot at a few but the standard of the course is usually more challenging and interesting when set for registered or "special" shoots and I set my personal goals by shooting at these challenging shoots. 

I also do not see why it is silly to be able to compete against a World Champion in the same squad.   Being able to do this makes our sport special.   I was fortunate to be squadded with George Digweed recently at the Classic.   Two polar opposites in terms of ability  you will not find but so far as I can see he accepted me and I accepted him on the same squad.  In fact it made my day to be able to watch him close up, to learn from him both in terms of how he shot a target, how he took missing one, how he prepared himself in the stand - all valuable information for me.  He also told me what I need to do to improve, accepted gratefully.  I felt no embarrassment at all and even though I am inferior in terms of ability, I did not feel that at all - partly due to the way I am and partly due to the fact that he was a lovely polite individual with no airs and graces on the squad.  He is very focused when shooting but still joins in with a joke and a laugh.

In reality we were not competing, he is in AAA and I am at the bottom of C.  The AAA and AA and maybe a few A were competing for the top spots the rest of us were either competing in class or just having fun.  For me it was my most favourite shoot this year so far and I have done lots and that was a combination of an excellent course which slaughtered me and getting to shoot with a lovely squad and the icing on the cake for me which was shooting with George - I make no apologies.  I look forward to the British Open at Garlands where I think I am squadded with Cheryl Hall, another excellent shot and I will thoroughly enjoy that too.

I agree it would be great to see more happening at County level, I don't know how this can be achieved though.

My face looks like a smacked arse!

 

[teepee1234]

Deershooter,

"us lot" don't remove your posts, admin/moderators do.  And only if it's necessary.  Just saying.

 

[ips]

Lets be clear about one thing. A reg shoot is a competition weather you are comp or bo is irrelevant, the comp side of things is probably an incorrect term as it implies that your not comp if your bo. The reality is all your doing by going comp is bunging a fiver or whatever into a kitty so that the top shooters can use the prize money to offset the cost of breakfast and possibly even a couple of gallon of deisel. Reg comp is a comp end of, bo is just a cheaper form and as was mentioned its just a side bet against yourself. The only none comp shooting is practice and if your on a squad even that is considered by many of us to still be competitive to a degree.

 

[Eddie Wilkinson]

I cant remember exactly when it was introduced all those years back, however would be interesting to know if shoot entry numbers increased / decreased remained about the same ?

Why was it introduced ?

Personally, I shoot to compete & for prizes, be it against the best in my class or the top boys. To have the chance to pick up some cash that may go towards the costs of my sport is great. FYI I'm running at a 1500 k loss this year :spiteful:   I cant shoot to my best (yes, yes a lot say that :crazy: )  IF I'm in BO / practice mode

I've also had the pleasure as Sian has to have shot in squads with top shooters, a great experience and one my son learnt a lot from.

I think it works and allows everyone to enjoy their sport at some great venues.

In the past 25 yrs I've probably done it 3 times, and that being to financial restraints. Had I not been BO I would have picked up on at least one occasion.  

 

[Nimbusgb]

@Sian

. ...... He also told me what I need to do to improve, accepted gratefully......

Protest! No coaching on the stands allowed!

 

[Nimbusgb]

As @Eddie Wilkinson implied, the only time it's not a competition is when you shoot alone! Even a practice session with a couple of mates turns into a competition sooner or later!

 

[Sian]

@Sian

. ...... He also told me what I need to do to improve, accepted gratefully......

Protest! No coaching on the stands allowed!

It was not in the stand and actually after shooting the course so no rules broken although on one stand the ref told my husband as not CPSA registered to help me out to which he shouted from behind "Give them more" and I blasted both birds to everyone's amusement including George.

 

[timps]

I have to agree with IPS competition is competing and try to come first regardless of what you walk away with, be it money, trophy, bragging rights or just kudos.

We also have to understand we are a minority sport so comparing it to other major sports is a none starter. If you can only accommodate 8 runners in the finals to a packed athletics stadium those people are only going to pay to see the best 8 in the world. Those 8 are also going to be professional full time athletes not some (insert profession here) that shoots clays secondary to their job or main source of income.

Clay shooting competitions make money from entry fees so the more entries the better otherwise the commercial business putting the shoot on will fold. We are more like marathon running, there you can line up with Mo Farah in a fancy dress costume if you like.

Get enough spectators willing to pay an entry fee to watch shooting then you can be selective and pay big prizes until then the more people you can get to enter is king. 

 

[ExSCA]

Deershooter,

"us lot" don't remove your posts, admin/moderators do.  And only if it's necessary.  Just saying.

And "we" only do that when absolutely necessary. 

 

[ips]

Anyway back on topic.

What's all the fuss about shoot reg comp and enjoy. If you fancy making it a tad more interesting chuck a fiver in the kitty. Job done.

For the record i have always chucked in however in 28 years there is no way i have come out on top but as sidney said its fun to be handed an envelope with 7 quid in it occasionally and someone has to pay for the top shooters breakfast

 

[Nimbusgb]

Anyway back on topic.

What's all the fuss about shoot reg comp and enjoy. If you fancy making it a tad more interesting chuck a fiver in the kitty. Job done.

For the record i have always chucked in however in 28 years there is no way i have come out on top but as sidney said its fun to be handed an envelope with 7 quid in it occasionally and someone has to pay for the top shooters breakfast

The OP made his point in the first post. For some it is a real economic choice.

 

[Dog Tyred]

Anyway back on topic.

What's all the fuss about shoot reg comp and enjoy. If you fancy making it a tad more interesting chuck a fiver in the kitty. Job done.

For the record i have always chucked in however in 28 years there is no way i have come out on top but as sidney said its fun to be handed an envelope with 7 quid in it occasionally and someone has to pay for the top shooters breakfast

Funnily enough I went BO for the first time ever last week at Rugby as I was trying out my new stock and did not have any great expectations of a result (seems I was right!). Paid full entry for Harry though and he went on to win D class...again  :biggrin:

I used to enter Harry in BO because 1) I have to pay two entries every week and 2) his scores were someway way off class places. However as soon as his scores started to improve and he won D class as BO (he was gutted not to get a pay out)  he now goes in full entry every time. Whether this has had anything to do with his recent dramatic improvement in form I have no idea but is does wonders for his confidence when he does have a brown envelope thrust into his hand (which he then gives straight to me for the shooting fund .

As the good lord said "it is better to give and receive something back than not receive something back because you didn't give in the first place" or something like that 

Here endeth the lesson.

DT

 

[jim french]

Its the classes that are wrong, you can have six or more AAA guns at a shoot and there put into AA, to win A class you need a AAA score and so on.Then we have the sand bagger, all these things encourage BO put this wright you could then stop BO and reduce the cost to all and upset no one.