Birds Only or Competition?

[Santa2512]

I see both sides of the discussion ...   but disagree with some of the comments ..

Tink , You dont  cash inducements  to get cheek clenching pressure,  two well matched competiors shootingfor a trophy , or club championship is more than enough to put  pressure on both competitors.  ( been there and done it )  

BO for newbies, i have no objection having to pay full whack if its part of the entry terms, SC open for one ,  

But for a registered shoot, where  all you want to do is shoot to better yourself,  no interest in HG or class prizes, why should you have to pay £xx extra for a select few to take  the money?

Let's be honest, the chances of me or any newb rocking up to a prestigious  open  and walking away with the HG  are distinctly small, if not non exsistant.

do that  3 or 4 times a month, and it soon racks up, 

From the other side of the  discussion, i can see that HG & class prizes are a good thing, they can give encouragement to people who want to progress, the incentive to do so.  For the top flight shots, its a way of  getting some reward for what they do.

I suppose the real question is    is this an amatuer sport, or a professional sport?

We have other sports of the same ilk who do exacty the same, but with no cash prizes whatsoever, which from experiance were heavly attended .

Mart

 

[Nimbusgb]

My view for what it is worth is scrap birds only.....but that ain't going to happen.

So my suggestion is this. All competitions for a title like an English or British (and even selection shoots) should be competition only with clearly laid out prize fund. If Matt can do it for the shootclay cup...then everyone can.

You would then leave the option of birds only for registered shoots.

You then give this system a 2 year trial.

IMHO for what it is worth :wink:

+1

Why am I shooting the Shootclay cup?

• Matt has gone out of his way to pay fairly across a ( somewhat broken ) classification system and pretty far down the ranks! It's not the money so much as the 'noddy badge' of winning something. ( My prediction is that C class will be won with an 97x120 score ( or above ) but the depth of the payout will recognize a few others who 'pushed their envelopes' on the day.
• I have the same chance as some of the high and mighty to come away with a very expensive new gun!
• To meet some of you lot and see if you are a/ as nice as some of you make out and b-not as nice as you make out!

It would be a good exercise to see the classifications of the participants, I am convinced that this event has all but filled up in a very short space of time simply because Matt has put together a brilliant format.

Will never shoot birds only, and agree that when I am emperor, it will be removed as an option. 

At which point a bunch of us will phone the local club, rent a patch of time/clays etc and go and shoot without you and bodies like the CPSA will die a death!

I do regularly shoot BO as the cost of a donating to a prize pool gives me another box of cartridges to throw downrange! In the same way as i don't shoot the pool shoots as I know I ( currently ) don't have a snowballs chance in hell of taking home the money and I can practice long birds on my own any time I want.

In other threads the top guys seem to be harping on about how shooting is largely a mental game. I submit, M'lords and Ladies that knowing ones limitations and setting realistic goals is as important in preventing disillusionment with ones hobby as anything else! 

 

[Jim Wheeler]

as soon as you start to make it compulsory to pay for a prize kiity, a lot of people will not bother, it's an individual choice to gamble on your own ability. I used to do a lot of match fishing years ago, the 'pool' was optional. most will enter that as, up to a point, your luck on the peg draw will dictate what you might catch?win!

different story when it's your known ability, in any sport.

 

[timps]

I genuinely don't get shootings fixation with winning a little bit of cash. I come from a bike racing background, motocross and road. I raced at a half decent level and 95% of the time all you ever won was a plastic trophy or a half decent championship shield you had to give back a year later.

If a main sponsor got involved you could win tyres, oil or whatever they made / sold but that was it. The joy of racing for northern region in the inter area championships winning and getting a plastic fuel can and a can of chain lube as a prize from the main sponsor.

I compete for myself, if I wanted to get rich then I would choose another sport than shooting.I have won money, I have also won HG at a mid week registered sportrap and been birds only much to the amusement of so called friends.

How it is run at the moment works for me, if I feel like I am on form I pay comp, if I don't then I just go birds only. It's nice to win money, I used to go comp every week but I was spending more on comp fees than I was getting back in winnings, then when I came 2nd with a big entry and got nothing that did it for me.

So I have decided to put the odds back in my favour, I am still down but not by half as much.

I want to win, but winning £25 for first in class or sod all for third and second adds no more pressure than being on for a high 80's low 90 with 3 stands to go, that's were I get my buzz from.

Big comps or guaranteed prize fund different matter, you can win something worth winning so it's always worth the gamble, but not always on normal registered shoots .

 

[Will Hewland]

Change now would cause issues; but if there had never been BO, it would not occur to anybody that they were paying into a prize pot. There would simply be an entry fee, with prizes paid out from the shoot organisers funds. It would then be up to the shoot organiser to decide how much to pay out, which is a marketing decision.

 

[Nimbusgb]

Change now would cause issues; but if there had never been BO, it would not occur to anybody that they were paying into a prize pot. There would simply be an entry fee, with prizes paid out from the shoot organisers funds. It would then simply be up to the shoot organiser to decide how much to pay out, which is a marketing decision.

Perhaps. But then people may have looked at competing and delay entering competitions until they were a lot better shots simply on cost grounds. I'm reconsidering shooting FITASC simply because it is now the wrong side of £.50 per clay to play the game.

 

[Will Hewland]

Yes but no BO would make comp entries about £36 and you would know no different. It costs around £70 to shoot a reg shoot all-in, (and much more if there is a lot of travelling / accommodation) so £4 is no deal breaker.

 

[timps]

Mind you there is a downside the only time I get a proper mention in Pull magazine was because I went birds only. I won the next one as well when I went comp not a peep from pull magazine.

 

[Doctor Lecter]

I wonder how much it would cost for 100esp  full comp with no prize money at all  , high gun and all classes  no payout .   just scores recorded as it is now ?  .   shooting the lincs  stuff paying full whack  only high gun wins  no class prizes ,    I think the whole system needs debate .  its way overpriced as it is ,  youngsters tell me its a financial burden on themselves and parents .  

 

[Will Hewland]

I wonder how much it would cost for 100esp full comp with no prize money at all , high gun and all classes no payout . just scores recorded as it is now ? . shooting the lincs stuff paying full whack only high gun wins no class prizes , I think the whole system needs debate . its way overpriced as it is , youngsters tell me its a financial burden on themselves and parents .

Pretty simple. About £5 less each. HG money comes from the organiser and is there as marketing, so a good investment.

 

[Bryn12]

I've never been involved in comps that paid cash usually just a cup/trophy for the winner and a medal for the top 3 in each class. The idea of a cash prize is new to me. Personally my motivation is improving and beating my average and PB whether thats a particular round or gross score for the day.

At the moment I'm a fair bit off being competitive even in C class, if the general feeling is to go comp then that's fine and I'll stump up but to date the 3 shoots I've taken part in have all been BO.

 

[Nimbusgb]

I take it all back!

I came joint second in the pool shoot at Hickstead's Thursday compaq/pool shoot this evening and won a tenner!

Only had one crack at it, shot it on my own and set a 9/10 score for everyone else to chase. Let's just say that some others had more than one go before getting a 10.

Was I tempted to try a second go to chase the 10? Was I hell! I reckon the 9 was as good as it was going to get!

Hmmm. Perhaps I should be complaining that it only took me one go!

Well chuffed tonight!

 

[perazzi]

People should have the choice it's a hobby for most. Business for a few .to keep the sport going we need more options not less

 

[Zulu Dave]

Bad timing to ask me.....I just picked up my prize money, so pleased to have/be shooting comp. Happy to continue doing so. 

PS. the prize money was 50% of the entry fee. 

 

[Rupert]

Never enter the comp,the others would have to DNF for me to get into the money,

 

[** Pending Removal **]

People should have the choice it's a hobby for most. Business for a few .to keep the sport going we need more options not less

Yes and a hobby is not competition.

 

[chippy]

I never have shot birds only but i,'am considering it now as to win A class these days you need to shoot 90% score. A few years ago a middle 80s score would do it.

 

[sidney]

For me Little brown envelopes at the end of the day are the icing on the cake, regardless of how much is in there it's a nice feeling. I look at it as putting a £5 (+-) bet on myself to win my class.

Have never shot T/O even when I first started and had little chance of a win. Goal setting is important to improve.

 

[Nick Selby]

I have shot both BO and comp and to be honest not found any difference in how I approach it or my 'mental game'... At the level I am, the prize fund is irrelevant and all the pressure comes from myself not wanting to look an idiot in front of the others I shoot with.

I really don't see the problem with having both options but also it wouldn't stop me shooting if shoots got rid of BO and just had comp.

 

[Jaykaysea]

Never shoot birds only..... in my opinion it shouldn't be an option.

The feeling when you win is amazing..... and it is that desire to do it again that keeps me focussed on improving and moving through the classes.

Happy to pay into a pot that provides a prize fund....and it is particularly sweet when you win because people who shot better than you went birds only!!! Ask Allison L...it happens most weeks....