Has The World of Clayshooting Gone Mad?

As the title suggests, what are we doing?

I noticed recently that cartridge prices have increased because of the sudden rise of the cost of Lead  (not).

Why then do the manufacturers penalise the poor & frail such as myself by charging me more for 21 gram cartridges and letting the incredibly wealthy clayshooting fraternity pay less for 28 gram cartridges ?

Then we have the talented shooters who rob us weekly of our hard earned cash by winning all the prize money to maintain their lavish lifestyles, who then do not wish to represent their country in International competitions?

I was shocked to hear only the other day that we (the sport) are paying referees £80 a day to referee at Nationals and Internationals .

Surely the referees should do it for nothing? After all they are having time off work and travelling sometimes hundreds of miles , having luxury overnight stays in Premier Inns and Travel Lodges at their own expense  AND now wanting paying???? 

Only last month did I hear of a referee being punched by a County shooter , what an honour ? Imagine the street credability of saying " I was punched by my hero"

Surely it must be a privilege to sit on a chair for upto 12 hours a day surrounded by athletes including World Champions and having the honour of debating with competitors whether he hit a clay or not.

I think it is time that referees gave up receiving payment and donated their fees to the CPSA to enable them to have a banquet at the end of season to honour the Trade and Press for their contribution to our sport.

Our sport is in a very sorry state, made all the sorrier by people like me being allowed outdoors   :lol: :lol: :lol:

Too much coffee?

Cosmicblue said:

Too much coffee?

Click to expand...

I think the poor old sod has hit the Gin a bit early today! Well it's a nice day for it.........................

Surely the County shooter should be up for assault and stripped of his licence/banned from CPSA!

The problem surrounding refs as i see it is we don't pay enough to get quality and some grounds are so desperate that they will put anyone on the stand and some are just completely unsuitable and untrained (this year i actually heard one say due to his poor eyesight he couldn't really see the clays but was told to carry on anyway!)

As for the cartridges i have wondered myself but  put it down to quantity produced.

I do though appreciate the post is meant to be ironic

http://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/features/clay-shooting/refereeing-a-thankless-task-1-1996046

Go the golf route.... reduce entry fees, get rid of prize money and get people to score themselves. Should reduce the cheating/abuse that seems to be going on. I'm guessing it might have to go that way if referees become harder to recruit..

The Kent and Sussex Clubman League shoots are self-scoring.  The number of groups of mates that I've seen telling each other 'you took the paint off of that' on untouched targets or claiming 'you got a good 9 on that stand' after watching at least 3 clays sailing past unharmed makes me think that cheating is unlikely to be reduced by self-scoring.

Bebo said:

The Kent and Sussex Clubman League shoots are self-scoring.  The number of groups of mates that I've seen telling each other 'you took the paint off of that' on untouched targets or claiming 'you got a good 9 on that stand' after watching at least 3 clays sailing past unharmed makes me think that cheating is unlikely to be reduced by self-scoring.

Click to expand...

not going to have any choice if refs cannot be recruited....

I guess shoot owners could whack the prices up to pay for 'quality refs' but I doubt most shooters will want to pay for that.....

Nick Selby said:

not going to have any choice if refs cannot be recruited....

I guess shoot owners could whack the prices up to pay for 'quality refs' but I doubt most shooters will want to pay for that.....

Click to expand...

I've been discussing with a few grounds lately about scorers pay, as my step daughter and son are looking for some summer money. Without naming anybody, there is so far a direct correlation between the quality of ground / scorers and the remuneration..

Isn't just the grounds though...100gbp a day for reffing Lulworth pretty much as big an event as it gets doesn't seem much for the presumed quality they require and a long day.

10gbp an hour cash in hand for your average registered and food/drink seems pretty reasonable though.

Do any actually pay less than that?

schmokinn said:

Isn't just the grounds though...100gbp a day for reffing Lulworth pretty much as big an event as it gets doesn't seem much for the presumed quality they require and a long day.

10gbp an hour cash in hand for your average registered and food/drink seems pretty reasonable though.

Do any actually pay less than that?

Click to expand...

Yes..

Will Hewland said:

Yes..

Click to expand...

Should name and shame then,maybe that will get them to cough up some more dough?

Generally the remuneration is agreed beforehand so no one's forced into it. Not every ground pays the same and not every ref gets paid the same. Sometimes you're finished by 3.30 sometimes a good bit later. Some grounds supply food and drink, some don't, but that doesn't affect me because I avoid the typical fried food menu and instead bring my own comestibles from home.

Like anyone I make the occasional mistake but I don't remember anyone trying to monster me into changing a decision. Of course there are one or two chip beggars around, also a few "see a pair from in the cage" beggars, but they soon give up when they realise I'm not having it.

On a nice day at a nice ground like Westfield where most refs are regulars and matey with many of the shooters, it can be a fairly pleasant few hours.

schmokinn said:

Isn't just the grounds though...100gbp a day for reffing Lulworth pretty much as big an event as it gets doesn't seem much for the presumed quality they require and a long day.

10gbp an hour cash in hand for your average registered and food/drink seems pretty reasonable though.

Do any actually pay less than that?

Click to expand...

When I was 14 I refereed (although we called it "pressing and marking") at Nottingham and District  (when it was owned by the Groves) and we used to get around £15 - £20 for 6 or so hours on a Sunday and 6 or 7 quid for a Wednesday evening. You got even less if you sat in a trap house. There were no auto loaders and the Skeet traps even had to be cocked by hand, very dangerous thinking about it now. We used to be well happy with the money and took the job pretty seriously, especially for national comps. No shooters ever seemed to question the fact that we were young referees and I can't ever remember having an argument over a score or rules. This was over 20 years ago.

Kids these days seem to be a lot more entitled and I doubt they'd consider getting out of bed for that sort of money but I'd rather have cheaper entries than expensive referees.

schmokinn said:

Isn't just the grounds though...100gbp a day for reffing Lulworth pretty much as big an event as it gets doesn't seem much for the presumed quality they require and a long day.

10gbp an hour cash in hand for your average registered and food/drink seems pretty reasonable though.

Do any actually pay less than that?

Click to expand...

YES   !  Oh, and if you want food and drink, take your own. Mine usually goes there and home again, if you get a lull in proceedings, you are usually too busy picking up the spent cartridges from all of the Auto's !

westley said:

 you are usually too busy picking up the spent cartridges from all of the Auto's !

Click to expand...

And not just autos. I'm constantly amazed how many people can hit a 4" target, traveling at 50mph and at 40yds distance but can't hit a stationary 3 foot diameter bin at a distance of 12 inches!

As an auto user myself, I was being a touch facetious  !

I am shooting at Lonato and the prices of cartridges at the shooting ground are, I think very reasonable eg Clever  28gm T2 @ €192 or T4 pro extra @ €236 / 1000 , I have to pay almost €300 for T4's in France, but they had all the Italian manuf carts at good prices and I would bet they would be a fair bit cheaper from a standard gun shop. I put that down to thousands of trapshooters who don't want to be pissed about by shops making a bundle on their backs? Shooting isn't a sport in Italy it's a relgion and the shooters are treated fairly it would appear.

Bebo said:

The Kent and Sussex Clubman League shoots are self-scoring.  The number of groups of mates that I've seen telling each other 'you took the paint off of that' on untouched targets or claiming 'you got a good 9 on that stand' after watching at least 3 clays sailing past unharmed makes me think that cheating is unlikely to be reduced by self-scoring.

Click to expand...

I watched someone miss 6 on one stand in the Hampshire one last year and magically managed to shoot 65/70 

jwpzx9r said:

I am shooting at Lonato and the prices of cartridges at the shooting ground are, I think very reasonable eg Clever  28gm T2 @ €192 or T4 pro extra @ €236 / 1000 , I have to pay almost €300 for T4's in France, but they had all the Italian manuf carts at good prices and I would bet they would be a fair bit cheaper from a standard gun shop. I put that down to thousands of trapshooters who don't want to be pissed about by shops making a bundle on their backs? Shooting isn't a sport in Italy it's a relgion and the shooters are treated fairly it would appear.

Click to expand...

Businesses do not exist for the fun of it.  Profit is central to continuation.  The no-added-value middleman may provide some reason for the pricing.  And shipping, investment in stock, etc.  And of course the maximum gouge the market will bear.