Cheating in Sporting

[Salopian]

Quite a good article in November issue of Clay Shooter written by Don Brunt .

Scratching the surface about an issue that spoils our sport.

He touches on most of the things that we see and hear but sadly I doubt it will go away until we the competitors do something about it.

Sadly most competitors do not know the rules and cannot see that they are losing targets to their class competitors without even realising it.

How many of us have waited our turn to shoot and heard the chap in the stand being guided by their friends saying, "more lead", "your over the top" and kindly accepted it as well meaning advice ?

How many of us have seen a competitor shoot at a simultaneous pair , miss the first and had a misfire on the second , referee checks , nothing established pair again and the duff cartridge goes into the 'special' pocket of the competitors skeet vest?

Referees need to be firm but fair and backed up by us competitors let's get rid of "he hit that ref" mates.

 

[Steve Lovatt]

Haven't you got an over seventies tea dance to attend instead of worrying about this kinda stuff 

 

[schmokinn]

Quite a good article in November issue of Clay Shooter written by Don Brunt .

Scratching the surface about an issue that spoils our sport.

He touches on most of the things that we see and hear but sadly I doubt it will go away until we the competitors do something about it.

Sadly most competitors do not know the rules and cannot see that they are losing targets to their class competitors without even realising it.

How many of us have waited our turn to shoot and heard the chap in the stand being guided by their friends saying, "more lead", "your over the top" and kindly accepted it as well meaning advice ?

How many of us have seen a competitor shoot at a simultaneous pair , miss the first and had a misfire on the second , referee checks , nothing established pair again and the duff cartridge goes into the 'special' pocket of the competitors skeet vest?

Referees need to be firm but fair and backed up by us competitors let's get rid of "he hit that ref" mates.

Which ever way i put this i will probably get shot down.

There is many times i have stood there and backed up the ref when a group has called it a hit but it was blatantly the wad and not a chip.

I am all for this but unfortunately the scorers do get it wrong and for example there is a  ground that has some aging but enthusiastic scorers who quite regularly call misses on clays that have been smashed and call hits that were blatantly not anywhere near,i try to accept that it evens out but it is certainly not right.

There isn't much worse for a shooter than straighting a stand and finding they have  a couple of misses marked,i was somewhere else the other month and had this scenario as the young lady slouching in her chair with an obvious hang over couldn't be assed to stand up so she could see the full flight of the clay.Somebody said i should have called it when it happened but seen as she was not calling anything am i expected to check the card between every pair?

I know many say being a scorer is a thankless task but i always thank them when leaving the stand if they do there job.

We seem to have a lot of totally unsuitable scorers as in the one somewhere else that didn't speak even to name the person shooting just held up the card!

I know its a job that i really wouldn't want to do but if you chose to do a job you can at least put in the effort.

As for coaching if comp ban them if T/O does it make a difference.

Owners of The MAGIC CARTRIDGE should immediately be banned!

 

[Hamster]

Just on a simplistic level, can we try and fill the pensions hole for BHS ex-workers and maybe wrench that undeserved Knighthood off that slimeball first. 

 

[schmokinn]

Is it possible to have a list of shame without Matt getting his ass sued off?

Surely if people were under the impression they might be being watched they may behave better?

 

[Will Hewland]

I agree that a "never challenge the scorer" rule would actually account for more unfair losses than blagged kills, so it does need care. Poor eyesight from the elderly or lazy eyesight from the hungover teen definitely miss a few. My shooting mate corrected a scorer recently who was in a nice comfy chair, in a poor viewing position. I smashed the clay in a place the scorer couldn't see it. My mate earnestly told the scorer "nobody wants to see him miss more than me, but really, he did hit that". I have also done so several times and I usually tell the ref when the shooter is genuinely unknown to me.

But real cheating is awful of course. Cheating is a worry especially once a person has a reputation. A shoot was straighted not long ago, by a very good shot, but this person had been banned from another ground a few years ago for bribing scorers. So of course I wonder if the recent straight was very valid? It was at a ground where there are lots of young scorers who don't want a row over no-birds or disputed kills. Had this person bullied a few clays somewhere? Probably not but..

There are one or two more dodgy episodes recently, different shooters, but I will spare Matt the stress..

 

[Steve Lovatt]

Who and where did that happen then will ??

 

[danq]

cant see the point in cheating, in the end you are only cheeting yourself

 

[philmoss]

TBH....The standard of some "scorers/button pushers" at some registered shoots seem to be slipping, i use that terminology as unfortunately they cannot be classed as refs !!

Either they have no knowledge of policing certain basic rules such as glasses/hearing protection & coaching in the stand or NO interest ??  

 

[Will Hewland]

Who and where did that happen then will ??

I'll tell you when I'm eating the bacon roll you just bought me next Sunday. ?

 

[westley]

Perhaps we should follow the examples displayed by Footballers then, good, fair and honest play by all.  Oh, and the Referee's get a slating there too !

 

[Rob C]

It seems that a large amount of competitors would like really well trained, honest,sharp eyed , well versed in all aspects of the rules and trickery of devious shooters.

But how many are prepared to pay a premium for that type of scorer.

Shoot most weeks and must say that the great majority of scorers young or old do a decent job. Considering what they are paid and at times some appalling conditions they have to put up with . Not to mention some of  the grumpy old sods they have to endure.

Need to get a perspective on this does an odd clay you might lose or gain really matter on your average weekly shoot .

 

[balltrap]

I cannot Cheat when i have Ian Peel marking my sporting card, then again he does not know the sporting rules :angel:

Had a good day with a living legend, hope he would say the same !

 

[bisondan]

I couldn't cheat, even if there was something massive at stake.

Over the last couple of years I've invested a bit of time and money in having decent coaching, practice, and competition time.  So who would I seriously be kidding by trying to steal a target here and there?  I'm always respectful of the scorers and referees at grounds; always say thanks when I've finished shooting, especially in bad weather.

If you got caught then word would quickly get round and nobody would want anything to do with you, and I've made some really good friends through shooting so I wouldn't put that at risk either.

For me it's the lowest of the low to cheat in shooting, I'd be devastated if I lost out on something due to somebody cheating.  Anyone caught should be banned from registered competitions in my opinion.

 

[Hamster]

Spot on Rob, all sports have their cheats and lets face it televised stuff pays rather well compared to clays. The odd bit of cheating must go on I suppose but I really doubt anyone could do it regularly/cleverly enough to get in the money because of it. 

I can honestly say I have seen very little (prolly next to none) real cheating but of course you do see the odd bit of incorrect application of rules like when the first missed bird is not taken into account on repeat pair but I also sometimes see people miss clays that were far enough off line to have deserved being called a no bird by refs and the shooters invariably accept it so lets remember the good in people too. 

 

[westley]

Okay, Okay,...............the game is up !   I admit to cheating and having an unfair advantage over all the other shooters.........................BUT I have always used Hull Superfasts  !   

 

[Will Hewland]

Spot on Rob, all sports have their cheats and lets face it televised stuff pays rather well compared to clays. The odd bit of cheating must go on I suppose but I really doubt anyone could do it regularly/cleverly enough to get in the money because of it. 

I can honestly say I have seen very little (prolly next to none) real cheating but of course you do see the odd bit of incorrect application of rules like when the first missed bird is not taken into account on repeat pair but I also sometimes see people miss clays that were far enough off line to have deserved being called a no bird by refs and the shooters invariably accept it so lets remember the good in people too. 

And there is that grey area. If you question every slight no-bird you won't be cheating, but I bet you get a couple extra each time if you push it. (You may get a rep as a pain though..) I could probably find 10 results in the last year where 1 or 2 clays more would have made me money. I will politely ask if an obvious no-bird was ok to the ref, but I won't argue. As much as anything, you don't shoot well if miffed.

 

[balltrap]

Okay, Okay,...............the game is up !   I admit to cheating and having an unfair advantage over all the other shooters.........................BUT I have always used Hull Superfasts  !   




 

You need to cheat using them :lol:

 

[schmokinn]

Cheating of any kind is wrong and in the end you are only cheating yourself in more ways than one.

I keep seeing people talking of the costs yet i have seen reg 100 bird shoots ranging from 25 to 42 pounds this year,admittedly 25 is very cheap and everybody needs to make a buck but over the last few years the average price i pay has risen by 10gbp in between all this there must be some scope for training/paying your scorers that little better.

It isn't just an age thing as 4 counties CTC has the youngest scorers(mid teens for those who don't know the ground) i know of and they are well well trained and consistent.

I think there must be something in what they are told to get them into the job as some seem to be disappointed that you are interrupting there afternoon in the sun to make them score,no doubt there will be no sign of them come winter.

But there being such a vast difference between grounds there must be something reasonably straightforward that can be done.

At the end of the day i can think of no other place you would pay for something that you didn't get and accept it.