I’m not a big changer of chokes, just use 3/8 all the time. On a recent shoot I did put a Cylinder in for a very close target. My question is at roughly what distance does a Cylinder choke become ineffective on either a edge on or full face target? Using 28g and 7.5 shot size FBlu’s.
Cylinder choke
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About 20 meters or so. I consider cylinder choke a stretch to shoot a pair on peg 4.
If you want an open choke then a skeet’s probably a better bet. It gives a little more density without really losing anything in pattern width. In any event, I wouldn’t get too fussed about it. Neither option would be the difference between a hit or missed target.
I’d think about using smaller shot though. Any target sufficiently close enough to consider a cylinder choke’s probably better shot with 8 or 9.
If you want an open choke then a skeet’s probably a better bet. It gives a little more density without really losing anything in pattern width. In any event, I wouldn’t get too fussed about it. Neither option would be the difference between a hit or missed target.
I’d think about using smaller shot though. Any target sufficiently close enough to consider a cylinder choke’s probably better shot with 8 or 9.
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bostonmick
Well-known member
i have used skeet and quarter for a long while and have broke clays 40 to 45 yards with no difference in the breaks.people get to hung up on chokes and distance i have seen 60+ yard targets smashed using cylinder.all with 7s 28gram.
chippy
Well-known member
Full face 30 yards no problem with cylinder.
Cheers Chippy that’s a bit further out than I’d thought, probably use them a bit more and see how we go.
It's certainly possible to break long shots with cylinder or skeet but will you always break them? An open choke will have holes in the pattern at more than about 25yds and huge holes at 60 yds!
If you read this you can see that a 1/2 choke is virtually as good as a cyl at 25yds and miles better at 50.
If you read this you can see that a 1/2 choke is virtually as good as a cyl at 25yds and miles better at 50.
I'm off the opinion that changing cartridge/shot size should be the first port of call, should you be so inclined to change your set-up relative to target presentation.
In my experience, cartridge selection has a greater influence over breaks than choke changing.
H
In my experience, cartridge selection has a greater influence over breaks than choke changing.
H
Smaller shot gets you more pellets in the zone but theoretically the pattern will be the same size.
Agree...and disagree.
The theoretical pattern may start the same but undeniable physicals dictates that smaller, lighter projectiles will disperse at a faster rate than larger, heavier projectiles. ie 9 shot will open up faster than 6.5 shot.
I do love the choke/cartridge/shot size debates! They're good fun.
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Will Hewland
Well-known member
Multiple impacts from the many pellets hitting each other is the conventional wisdom. I’ve definitely pattern proven more pellets end up wider. If you think about it, imagine a single large 28g pellet. It wouldn’t make a 16” wide pattern. You need pellets to populate the area and they all like a bit of a gap to one another.
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Cylinder choke is a advantage on quick close snappy birds, and close rabbit's. Definitely more of a advantage than using a no. 9 in a 1/2 choke.. this comes from somebody that rarely changes chokes. 1/4 and 1/2 in a geurini seems to break most stuff if I do my bit. But stick in a cylinder some times when a silly quick close bird. Cylinder can definitely break full face Clay's at 30 or more yards, but you can be chipping, cracking them and not really know where you are. Hit them with 1/2 choke ya know when your centring them!.
When considering shot size and pellet dispersion, this is more to do with momentum than direct force application. Momentum is directly governed by mass and velocity so if you alter the mass of the projectile, you alter its ability to maintain its directional momentum. The obvious example here is of a bowling ball holding its trajectory better than say, a tennis ball in a bowling alley. The increased mass gives the bowling ball more momentum to travel in a single trajectory and makes it less susceptible to other forces such as cross winds or, depending where you bowl, other balls coming across your lane...
Which leads us nicely onto shot travelling down a barrel.
Heavier shot can maintain forward momentum better than lighter shot and, when you add in the additional pellet count you get with smaller shot, you create more collisions and external forces to amplify the dispersion effect (or deviation to the original directional momentum) with lighter shot.
The net result of all this is that you see the results Will gets one his pattern plate.
Please, let's not now get involved with pellet deformation, aerodynamics etc etc
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AW13
Well-known member
and does the above also suggest that often you hear that 24g holds a better pattern than 28g and by that I guess that less pellets also mean less collisions and therefore less dispersion....... ergo a tighter/neater pattern from the 24g?
I've referred to this before so apologies for the duplication.
https://www.briley.com/c-461-sporting-clays-chart.aspx
It's very easy to over choke.
https://www.briley.com/c-461-sporting-clays-chart.aspx
It's very easy to over choke.
Skeet UK
Well-known member
↑↑This↑↑When considering shot size and pellet dispersion, this is more to do with momentum than direct force application. Momentum is directly governed by mass and velocity so if you alter the mass of the projectile, you alter its ability to maintain its directional momentum. The obvious example here is of a bowling ball holding its trajectory better than say, a tennis ball in a bowling alley. The increased mass gives the bowling ball more momentum to travel in a single trajectory and makes it less susceptible to other forces such as cross winds or, depending where you bowl, other balls coming across your lane...
Which leads us nicely onto shot travelling down a barrel.
Heavier shot can maintain forward momentum better than lighter shot and, when you add in the additional pellet count you get with smaller shot, you create more collisions and external forces to amplify the dispersion effect (or deviation to the original directional momentum) with lighter shot.
The net result of all this is that you see the results Will gets one his pattern plate.
Please, let's not now get involved with pellet deformation, aerodynamics etc etc
Its the same reason a midi clay, launched at the same speed as a standard, will slow down more quickly and be affected by wind sooner.
Well the flaw in the above is that you overlook pellet density. For identical density, wad and shell construction, lighter pellets would behave the same as heavier because they have a smaller diameter.When considering shot size and pellet dispersion, this is more to do with momentum than direct force application. Momentum is directly governed by mass and velocity so if you alter the mass of the projectile, you alter its ability to maintain its directional momentum. The obvious example here is of a bowling ball holding its trajectory better than say, a tennis ball in a bowling alley. The increased mass gives the bowling ball more momentum to travel in a single trajectory and makes it less susceptible to other forces such as cross winds or, depending where you bowl, other balls coming across your lane...
Which leads us nicely onto shot travelling down a barrel.
Heavier shot can maintain forward momentum better than lighter shot and, when you add in the additional pellet count you get with smaller shot, you create more collisions and external forces to amplify the dispersion effect (or deviation to the original directional momentum) with lighter shot.
The net result of all this is that you see the results Will gets one his pattern plate.
Please, let's not now get involved with pellet deformation, aerodynamics etc etc
No pellet dispersion by choke chart that I've ever seen has shown nominal pellet percentage within the 30 inch pattern as varying with shot size. We know it varies between different shell types and things such as wad construction too, but that's another story.
Skeet UK
Well-known member
No.
Identical density, suggests identical material used to make the pellet.
You can ignore pellet deformation, even though it is a factor.
If the pellets have the same density, (same material) then the smaller pellet will have less mass, so will slow down more quickly, when fired at the same speed.
In order for a smaller pellet to outperform a larger pellet in this regard, it would need to be MORE dense, and weigh more than the larger pellet, when fired at the same speed.
This is why steel 9's, have to be fired faster, to retain a similar energy down range, as lead 9's.
