Constructive suggestions for Southdown

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Hamster

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
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5,197
Location
Kent
I didn't have the misfortune to shoot this championship so not taking any sides in the quality of the targets, refereeing,  organisation etc, enough has been said here and elsewhere so we can get a pretty good idea it wasn't a resounding success. I do think though that some of their problems owe a little to the nature of their set up so here I just want to highlight some of them and maybe naively make some suggestions.

I have always felt that the mechanical side and process of shooting Southdown feels slow compared to most other places and that is probably not helped by the nature of the very narrow track which makes up the main portion of the ground. Basically this means people are in each others way a great deal of the time, the other thing is the very odd build of some of the stands including at least one platform where it is impossible to see the birds unless you climb up to the top, in fact even to merely hand in your score card you need to brush past several people rubber necking on the steps (not ideal at all). 

Should this platform not have been built with steps a lot wider to allow free flow of people ? Should the vegetation immediately around the platform be trimmed to avoid people clambering to see things before their turn ? Would it make sense (for regular reg shoots anyway) to have 2 score card boards, one at the foot of the platform where newly arrived shooters can quickly place their cards and simply swap boards with the ref as the one in his hand empties ? Would it be possible to alter some platforms to have a clear IN and OUT route ?

 
I have noticed also that they have several gun racks which are wholly unsuitable for the job owing to the fact that being belt and braces means you need to manipulate a closed gun under and into the rack. I can understand their desire to avoid being sued by someone whose gun falls and gets damaged but if they're not being used then get rid of them as space around the stands seems to be at a premium anyway. 

Next is the bizarre set up of some of the benches, huge well constructed things that are turned tight in and facing the birds so as to make actually using them impossible; if you're lucky the ref may be occupying a part of it but a useable bench it isn't, why not just have single chairs for the refs if you don't want people to use the benches ? Get rid and open up the space.

Another stand I can think of involves stepping down and features a very narrow passage with the inevitable bottle neck of waiting shooters trying to spot a suitable time to hand in their card to the ref tucked away below and sat in the corner of another unuseable bench ! 

Yet another stand is all but invisible from the track and which is accessed by a twisting narrow walkway with barely enough standing space behind it to even allow the following shooter to get a look see ??!! Here you regularly see people having to wait for others to pass and I bet it has a disproportionately high number of people asking to see pairs.

Those quads look larger than some others I have seen, assuming the ground has had the foresight to place enough clay boxes at the foot of the traps needing to be refilled, then could push bikes be enough to get staff around, at least on the narrow track areas ?

Finally, not a time and motion issue but this business of sun affected stands, is it really that hard to ensure that areas of the ground affected by the sun are NOT used for throwing anything too high ?

 
Why don't you buy the place Hammy? I expect it would be for sale at the right kind of money. You could put the stands just where you wanted and then we could come and moan about you.

 
Why don't you buy the place Hammy? I expect it would be for sale at the right kind of money. You could put the stands just where you wanted and then we could come and moan about you.
Ian, I suspect ground owners know better than anybody else that you can't please the whole crowd. Must be quite wearing after a while..

 
Bloody hell Hammy are you ever happy. I think most of your comments are unjustfied.

Southdown is not a bad ground, yes i think there may have been problems with the weather this time which no one can not help.

Yes there may have been problems with waiting but thats down to the amount of people wanting to shoot the event. I can't comment on these as it did not happen to me.

I shot it on Sunday and was happy with everything, the targets good Grahme Brown stuff, the time it took to shoot it, the good company in the squad i was in.

If we don't support grounds like this it will close. We have already lost Wylye, Southern Counties goes at the end of the year. Southdown is one of my closest grounds being an hour and half away.

Perhaps you should start a campaign if you want to shoot clays move up North!

 
Bloody hell Hammy are you ever happy. I think most of your comments are unjustfied.

Southdown is not a bad ground, yes i think there may have been problems with the weather this time which no one can not help.

Yes there may have been problems with waiting but thats down to the amount of people wanting to shoot the event. I can't comment on these as it did not happen to me.

I shot it on Sunday and was happy with everything, the targets good Grahme Brown stuff, the time it took to shoot it, the good company in the squad i was in.

If we don't support grounds like this it will close. We have already lost Wylye, Southern Counties goes at the end of the year. Southdown is one of my closest grounds being an hour and half away.

Perhaps you should start a campaign if you want to shoot clays move up North!
What ? Where did that all come from ? Did you even read my post or the title ? Did you read my post on another related thread saying I feel gutted for Southdown ? I am not criticising them but merely suggesting solutions to blindingly obvious restrictive issues around their layouts and am happy to physically take you to the stands in questions to show you (seeing as you think them unjustified).

I want Southdown to get back to their best, my suggestions were admittedly maybe naive but at least it is better than just shouting they're crap and moaning about any and everything so next time you feel the need to have a pop make sure you have a gram of point.

 
Perhaps they should consult previously successful and respected course designers who may have time on their hands at the moment?

This may be a time to look backwards rather than into the future for the success required to please the majority. I'm thinking of people who have previously proved themselves running their own grounds but who are either semi or fully retired. There is a wealth of experience out there, untapped talent if you like, who know how to run a good shoot. I expect a a lot of people may be thinking (although not saying) give it to Steve Lovatt to organise as he is certainly the man of the moment, but I'm sure his workload is heavy enough running his own grounds. It wouldn't be a bad thing if he took it on though!!

Personally I can think of three people off the top of my head who fit the bill, and they all live in Southern England so would have been ideal. I cannot understand the logic in being the course setter and then not being there for the duration of the shoot to sort out the problems as has been reported.

I didn't shoot this, so I can't comment on this shoot, but I did shoot some of the Majors in the past which were fantastic in every way (except my performance!). :biggrin:

 
The title of the thread is 'Constructive suggestions for Southdown' the author makes what he feels are appropriate observations and then get's fried.

Maybe that is why Southdown is the dump that it is today ? The majority seem to like it disorganised. It cannot be too bad, the CPSA thinks it is a Premier Ground ! 

 
The title of the thread is 'Constructive suggestions for Southdown' the author makes what he feels are appropriate observations and then get's fried.

Maybe that is why Southdown is the dump that it is today ? The majority seem to like it disorganised. It cannot be too bad, the CPSA thinks it is a Premier Ground !

Wonder how much that costs?

 
we shooters are allowed our opinion  after all we pay our entry fee ,  constructive criticism  is better than moaning  behind their backs ,  some grounds need to get their acts together and shape up .  many problems are very basic and could soon be rectified  .     

 
Southdown's good reputation was always about the targets. People went there despite the unreliable traps, dodgy batteries, grotty clubhouse, uninspiring catering, ankle breaking lane surface and dubious refereeing. We liked the targets: you had plenty of time on them, were rarely edge on, often needed lots of lead and you just wanted to be able to break them - if you couldn't, you wanted to go back and try again.
Didn't Southdown host the World Sporting once and make a pigs ear of it? Targets were apparently great but organisation was awful - poor food, terrible loos and no water available despite searing heat?
Anyway Peckham 1 moved on, Peckham 2 did a good job replacing him as the target setter and the new owners really tried to improve the look and feel of the place. But the dodgy traps and staff issues remained and now, with Shaun gone, there is no one left with a clue how to set a target.
Peckham 3 has a very different style of target setting and I've never enjoyed any shoot he has helped set up - it doesn't surprise me if he was involved in this English open. I thought GB was setting it up but he certainly wasn't around this weekend to oversee it. Did he actually see the targets he put his name too?

Southdown needs a decent target setter that makes use of all that space and knows how to keep the punters happy. If they don't like the targets they will notice/start caring about all the other (maybe quite minor) faults and go elsewhere...... This weekend was my 1st time back since early March. Not sure when I'll go back again

 
Hammy I think you have misunderstood I am not having a pop at you, but every ground has problems stands. Not much has changed at Southdown in the last 10 years. I think Southdown has had a kicking, some may be deserved some is not.

The point I was trying to make all be it badly it would appear is we need to stand behind these grounds, or we will all need to move up north to shoot clays.

Is there a perfect clay ground?

 
grimsthorpe this sunday lincs sporting ,  orston takes some beating  for facilities and targets ,   perfect ground ?    you cant please everyone !

 
I think we are all remembering 'The Good Old Days' of Southdown in the 90's. The 70yd driven, 60yd rabbits and 50yd teal. Nobody moaned then, we just got on and shot and enjoyed em! As you walked the lane you would always see either DP or SP with there walkie talkies in hand, at the ready. Shot Hickstead last month and DP followed us on several stands, taking a genuine interest. Have never seen the Southdown boys out of the clubhouse. DP had balls and I believe he will be remembered for that!

 
Hamster has a valid point, 

No one disputes its a difficult task to run a ground and please everyone, but when the same topics & concerns  crop up repeatedly, it does make you wonder.

As a relative newby, ive only shot at a small number of  venues, Southdowns being one of them.

As a new shot, the first impressions count, so when you first visit a ground, what you see tends to give you a pre-formed opinion

My first reg comp at SD left me disapointed. I understand it was set for  a level way beyond my abilities, but i thought the presentation of the experiance was poor

Being told to wait at traps because they didnt have anyone to score,

Told to shoot out of trap sequence because of the above ,

Having to wait for more people to turn up to a trap before the scorer on the next trap came and scored.

And the most disapointing for me, loosing two shots.

If i only take 100 carts  with me and i get to trap 10 and with no carts left  and I'm told i still have 2 to take, what does that say?

Never having shot a comp before,  i relied on the scorer to say when ive had my 10 birds,  clearly one of them wasnt counting properly.  On questioning the scoring... the reply was  "Next time you come you can have 2 extra shots"  ...  

What do you say to that? 

On a  return visit  for a general open shoot around  with a friend,  

My friend commented that most of the targets appeared to be set to a level way beyond his ability, with ulta high mini's  or incredibly quick driven pairs He only managed to get one or two crossers or the rabbits,

For me i think this weekend summed it up

I had a choice, The open 100 esp practice at SD or the 100 esp at Hickstead, bear in mind i live  a lot closer to SD.

I went to Hickstead,

Mart

 
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And didn't we have fun there Santa! I will definitely go back to Hickstead.

 

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