Buying a gun

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It's like Skoda, Hyundai, and possibly/probably Dacia in about 10 years time I reckon... they all sucked (or currently have no historic name as such) but got their sh1t together. The big players, vw, bmw, ford, mercedes, etc. have all been doing it so long it's easy for them and they have the rep, but the new guys have to show that they can build to the same standard, AND be reliable, AND have parts and spares easily accessible. In about a decade if they've proven that, that might even end up being a jolt in the @rse to bigger lads that they can't just rely on history.

I bought a 2008 Skoda Octavia because I'm car savvy, saved myself 5k over a golf and 10k over an audi, all three of which had the same chassis, and got a load of stick from blokes at work who are idiots. The following 5 years, Skoda won a ton of awards which shut them up. :D

 
El Spavo said:
It's like Skoda, Hyundai, and possibly/probably Dacia in about 10 years time I reckon... they all sucked (or currently have no historic name as such) but got their sh1t together. The big players, vw, bmw, ford, mercedes, etc. have all been doing it so long it's easy for them and they have the rep, but the new guys have to show that they can build to the same standard, AND be reliable, AND have parts and spares easily accessible. In about a decade if they've proven that, that might even end up being a jolt in the @rse to bigger lads that they can't just rely on history.

I bought a 2008 Skoda Octavia because I'm car savvy, saved myself 5k over a golf and 10k over an audi, all three of which had the same chassis, and got a load of stick from blokes at work who are idiots. The following 5 years, Skoda won a ton of awards which shut them up. :D
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I think Skoda have come a fair way down the road of proving themselves, as per the awards you mention. When you think back to the old Skoda jokes of the 80s and 90s, and where their are now, a lot of it is just public perception, but now to a much lesser degree.
... I mean, can you imagine plod running around in an old 1980s Skoda?!? But now, they use the VRS as a standard car.
You’re right, they have the same chassis as now all owned by the same group... manufacturing sense. Arguably there are different levels of interior equipment and bells n whistles, but it’s then back to ‘you make your own choice based on your own needs’.

If ATA and the like can do something like Skoda (arguably they have done to a degree already), then they really could give the others a run for their money in terms of market share.

 
Skoda to be honest have got quite a long history, it's only when VW bought them and invested into the company that they took off, their now showing the others how to do it.

Just need the right staff/motivation and above all the money

 
Depends on who the tier one supplier is. If it’s Pilla or Randolph, the heated window will help you see the clays better in cold weather

 
Fred Flintstone said:
If ATA and the like can do something like Skoda (arguably they have done to a degree already), then they really could give the others a run for their money in terms of market share.
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I’m afraid Hell will freeze over before ATA take any significant market share from Browning and Beretta.  Sure there are quite a few knocking about at club shoots and used as knockabout rough shooting guns but it takes years to build a loyal brand following  . If they really want to achieve something they could start by getting a big name to win world championships with their guns . As a Barrel manufacturing subcontractor to Beretta , it would be a brave move for them to start attacking the same segment that Beretta sells in . 

 
MartynB said:
I’m afraid Hell will freeze over before ATA take any significant market share from Browning and Beretta.  Sure there are quite a few knocking about at club shoots and used as knockabout rough shooting guns but it takes years to build a loyal brand following  . If they really want to achieve something they could start by getting a big name to win world championships with their guns . As a Barrel manufacturing subcontractor to Beretta , it would be a brave move for them to start attacking the same segment that Beretta sells in . 
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It’s often baffled me why many companies want a very thin slice of a large market when they can often more easily have a bigger slice of a smaller market. 
Over the years I’ve seen companies chase a few large unprofitable contracts and neglect their many small profitable ones to the point they end with nothing.

ATA and Kofs, even Webbley & Scot have a nice little  niche  that satisfies a very specific and arguably underserved market segment. Barrera and Browning have set the barriers to entry to their segment/s very high. Targeting abiove or below that point just makes good sense in my mind.

 
To the OP. Your gun may have had very lttle usage (hardly run in yet) but it's 10 years old, so out of warranty. I think a lot of peeps, especially newbies, will feel more comfortable having a manufacturer's warranty and pay the extra, if your price is too close to a new one.

To the OP. Your gun may have had very lttle usage (hardly run in yet) but it's 10 years old, so out of warranty. I think a lot of peeps, especially newbies, will feel more comfortable having a manufacturer's warranty and pay the extra, if your price is too close to a new one.

 
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Robden said:
manufacturer's warranty
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Depending on where the manufacturer is and whether you're buying straight from their top importer, I personally wouldn't put a premium on such warranty. The majority of things that could go wrong are small bits and niggles, which if solved 'under warranty' would likely still mean having your gun sent off and back. If there are major issues more so, and I'd hate to part with a gun for weeks if not months. As such I don't mind buying a gun that is (way) out of warranty, provided that gun is of a proven design (making major issues highly unlikely) and that availability of parts to address the small stuff is a given. Of course if the price is very close to a brand-new gun I'd go for that, if only for the "new gun smell", it not having any marks of use and to have the complete set of bits and bobs. Warranty isn't at the top of my list, as *knock on wood* I've never needed to call on it. 

 
Luke_(NL) said:
Depending on where the manufacturer is and whether you're buying straight from their top importer, I personally wouldn't put a premium on such warranty. The majority of things that could go wrong are small bits and niggles, which if solved 'under warranty' would likely still mean having your gun sent off and back. If there are major issues more so, and I'd hate to part with a gun for weeks if not months. As such I don't mind buying a gun that is (way) out of warranty, provided that gun is of a proven design (making major issues highly unlikely) and that availability of parts to address the small stuff is a given. Of course if the price is very close to a brand-new gun I'd go for that, if only for the "new gun smell", it not having any marks of use and to have the complete set of bits and bobs. Warranty isn't at the top of my list, as *knock on wood* I've never needed to call on it. 
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This

 
I purposely bought used on my last 2 guns as I was sending them to Teague , then  onwards for having the woodwork bent,  pads changed ,  and changing the hammer springs  and pins from the word go . That lot would have voided any warranty . The Guns were 2 and 3 year old respectively both mint  . Taking that approach I had £500 per gun in the bag towards my work . 

 
Warranties of 10 years pretty much means the manufacturer is confident that give expected use and some abuse their products will not leave them liable for an expensive repair bill. A three years old 525 with no warranty can still be very much expected to have no major issues in the following 7 years. Making warranties non transferable is really the manufacturer trying to leverage the marketing value of the long warranty given with a new gun.

Some years ago, I designed a number of power tools for a well known brand. In the design brief I was given to benchmarks. For consumer targeted products the design life was 45 hours. That is over a two year period the tool is expected to be with slow duty cycle (used intermittently) for less than 45 hours. It’s expected and thus costed in that there will be some statistical outliers. Industry targeted products had a design life of 500 hours with a correspondingly higher duty cycle. The component parts price difference did not reflect the retail price difference.

Basically, your paid for extended warranty is within the manufacturers expected lifecycle and you’re simply paying a hefty premium to cover the difference in the cost of the premium and the full replacement cost on the slight off chance that you go unlucky and purchased one of the very few products that are at the fringes of the statistical model.

Basically  then, your 7 year/100,000 miles car, your 5 year extend flatscreen TV and your million shells shotgun can be expected to deliver almost regardless of what you pay for it, new or second hand and even a fair degree of less than exemplary care. 

MartynB said:
I purposely bought used on my last 2 guns as I was sending them to Teague , then  onwards for having the woodwork bent,  pads changed ,  and changing the hammer springs  and pins from the word go . That lot would have voided any warranty . The Guns were 2 and 3 year old respectively both mint  . Taking that approach I had £500 per gun in the bag towards my work . 
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My F16 one year old and F3 five years old saved me about £7,000. So that gave me about four years worth of clays and shells in the bag.

I’d buy my food second hand if it were possible

 
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