Short Arms ?

A question for the collective brains please. I am a new shooter and am looking for a suitable gun. I have been using my fathers old AYA SxS game gun for clay shooting. After about 50 clays its really painful to shoot any more. I think the stock is too long as I am having to cradle it back into my bicep nearly to get my cheek anywhere near the right level on the comb. I have the bruised arm to prove. I have also tried a Berreta and a browning U&O that an instructor had. They were far better but I still had to have the stock way too far back in the shoulder to be comfortable and to get my cheek on the comb. My questions are 1, what is a stock stock size? 2, is there a gun (for clay's) that comes with a short stock or will I have to get a custom stock. 3, are my arms particularly short (from inner elbow to first (outer joint) of trigger finger is 13.5" approx.) ?
Thanks all.

The old rough guide to stock length was to hold the gun with the butt in the crook of your arm and your finger should rest on the trigger nicely , but that is a very rough guide . New over and under guns will have a length of pull ( the distance mid trigger to mid butt ) typically in the range of 14 1/2 inches to 14 3/4 inches . Most decent gun shops will have guns ( used ones ) that have been shortened it’s a fairly common thing . Getting a new gun shortened is also a common thing, the clever bit is getting someone who understands gunfit to tell you how much and check for any other alterations at the same time .

sounds like the guns were either too low or too high for you so you compensated by moving your head back thus stretching your arms. I would suggest an adjustable stock or a gun fit. Cant enjoy it, if you're in pain.

Thanks guys, where would I go for a 'gun fit'? Would I have to buy a gun first and then take it or would I have to buy the gun from wherever I went for a 'fit'?

Johnatcastle said:

Thanks guys, where would I go for a 'gun fit'? Would I have to buy a gun first and then take it or would I have to buy the gun from wherever I went for a 'fit'?

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Where abouts in the country are you John ? Then someone could make a suggestion . If you also look on GunTrader you can use the filters to find guns with different stock lengths .

I am near Windsor (Berks) Will have a trawl through the trader and see. Thank you.

Interested to know how tall you are, if average 5 10" to 6' I would suggest a lesson with a coach to address how you mount the gun, then a good gun shop should sort you out

Agreed, if you are a new shooter you need to be sure that you are mounting the gun correctly before making decisions about stock length. Some professional advice should help.

Just a point , the original poster has measuresd from the crook to his distal finger joint and got 13.5 inches , that is a critical measurement, because I’m mucking about in the garage at the moment , I’ve got a tape handy , the same measurement for me is 16.5 inches . I shoot 14 7/8 and 15” stocks . Everyone is correct about the gun mount needing checking but if his 13.5 measurement is correct it’s a knocking bet that a standard stock will be a little long.


The other thing to consider is that if I wanted to put someone off clay shooting for life , I’d get them started on a side by side game gun with a wooden butt , coupled with a pokey clay cartridge .

I don't agree with seeing a gun fitter as the first move. I strongly advise seeing a shooting instructor first. Probably the best place in your neck of the woods would be E J Churchill (near High Wycombe). They can do the lot for you and in the right order - which is important!

I'd recommend Cheryl Hall for gun fit, she sorted out an issue I didn't even realise I had. If you're short and have short arms then you might want to have a look at guns with stock made for female shooters. Beretta does the Vitoria stock on quite a few of their gun and that's about 13.5in I think. Alternative just look for a second hand gun that has already been shortened, lots more out there than there used to be now that there are more female clay shooters these days.

vmax1010 said:

Interested to know how tall you are, if average 5 10" to 6' I would suggest a lesson with a coach to address how you mount the gun, then a good gun shop should sort you out

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Hi there, am below 'average I'm afraid. Approx 5'7 with shoes on..
The instructor did say a shorter stock may help me.
Any decent gun shops near me? Have googled but only found Purdey (way out of my league) and Emmet

Johnatcastle said:

A question for the collective brains please. I am a new shooter and am looking for a suitable gun. I have been using my fathers old AYA SxS game gun for clay shooting. After about 50 clays its really painful to shoot any more. I think the stock is too long as I am having to cradle it back into my bicep nearly to get my cheek anywhere near the right level on the comb. I have the bruised arm to prove. I have also tried a Berreta and a browning U&O that an instructor had. They were far better but I still had to have the stock way too far back in the shoulder to be comfortable and to get my cheek on the comb. My questions are 1, what is a stock stock size? 2, is there a gun (for clay's) that comes with a short stock or will I have to get a custom stock. 3, are my arms particularly short (from inner elbow to first (outer joint) of trigger finger is 13.5" approx.) ?
Thanks all.

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I’m naturally a lurker but I have to chip in as this is my exact experience. Started with a friends fathers game gun 40 years ago with a really long stock and hefty game cartridges. Hurt like hell but I got a taste for it.

I’m 5’10” but somewhat barrel chested and big shouldered and depending on the gun and cast a stock of 13.5 to 14 inches suits me (I only shoot sporting). The traditional crook of arm or nose to thumb measurements don’t seem to work at all for me and I suspect won’t for you.

You have a bit of chicken and egg situation as you will need something that approximately fits in order to practice mounting, then when your mount has improved the actual stock dimensions can be worked out, by a pro if possible.

Cheapest possible used OU you can find with the stock already shortened to start? No need for a nice gun as it’s just a stepping stone. If it’s cheap enough to not care about you could cut it down yourself!

I stand by my earlier post. A good instructor - and Bebo made a great suggestion in Cheryl Hall - will quickly identify what's needed and how to proceed. A couple of hundred spent up front now could save you thousands down the road.

Westward said:

I stand by my earlier post. A good instructor - and Bebo made a great suggestion in Cheryl Hall - will quickly identify what's needed and how to proceed. A couple of hundred spent up front now could save you thousands down the road.

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I think the important part is “good”. Can any given instructor deal with people outside the average? My personal experience is no, they try to contort you to their idea of stance and form. For outliers like us It is negative.

I stand by my post for us outliers but no disrespect to Ms Hall, she may be what we all needed back in the day.

S

Westward said:

I stand by my earlier post. A good instructor - and Bebo made a great suggestion in Cheryl Hall - will quickly identify what's needed and how to proceed. A couple of hundred spent up front now could save you thousands down the road.

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Am looking at Cheryl for a lesson or three but timings and locations haven't worked up to now. I have had two instructors help me with my 'mount' and my head/eye and cheek position. Again it felt better with their guns but both were bigger chaps. I have found a dealer with some junior/ladies guns in stock so I may go and have a look and a chat with them. I hope I can compare the 'feel' of a smaller stock to a standard one. I am not bothered about using a Ladies/youth gun as long as it's comfortable. It takes so much away form your concentration when your shoulder feels like it's being pounded every time you pull the trigger. The one thing I am definite on is the AYA SxS has to go back.

Thanks for all the comments so far, really appreciate everyone's input. It's quite overwhelming at the outset but to be fair every person I have met and talked to so far has been very helpful. I am sure I will be posting more questions over the coming weeks, sorry.

This really isn’t as difficult as it’s being made out to be. The crook of the arm is a total nonsense and makes no sense at all.

First off you need a guns that’s relatively close as your mount will change dramatically over time. I’ve fitted 1000s of guns some to super large people all the way down to juniors and even 2 dwarfs. It’s not a hard process to get right but unfortunately you do de value the gun by cutting it so I would be using club guns to find what u like before cutting your forever gun.

At kibworth we have everything from 12” stocks upwards.

Don’t be put off a very simple process and don’t get it wrong on a nice gun

k80ben said:

This really isn’t as difficult as it’s being made out to be. The crook of the arm is a total nonsense and makes no sense at all.

First off you need a guns that’s relatively close as your mount will change dramatically over time. I’ve fitted 1000s of guns some to super large people all the way down to juniors and even 2 dwarfs. It’s not a hard process to get right but unfortunately you do de value the gun by cutting it so I would be using club guns to find what u like before cutting your forever gun.

At kibworth we have everything from 12” stocks upwards.

Don’t be put off a very simple process and don’t get it wrong on a nice gun

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Thanks Ben, what am I looking for in a good 'fit'? Am I looking for just how it feels or are there some factual things I should bear in mind when holding it? Arm, hand position, cheek placement, eyeline etc. Being so new it's a bit of a minefield. Thanks.

Westward said:

I stand by my earlier post. A good instructor - and Bebo made a great suggestion in Cheryl Hall - will quickly identify what's needed and how to proceed. A couple of hundred spent up front now could save you thousands down the road.

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That is spot on!!
That would be the way I would go, if starting out again!!

k80ben said:

This really isn’t as difficult as it’s being made out to be. The crook of the arm is a total nonsense and makes no sense at all.

First off you need a guns that’s relatively close as your mount will change dramatically over time. I’ve fitted 1000s of guns some to super large people all the way down to juniors and even 2 dwarfs. It’s not a hard process to get right but unfortunately you do de value the gun by cutting it so I would be using club guns to find what u like before cutting your forever gun.

At kibworth we have everything from 12” stocks upwards.

Don’t be put off a very simple process and don’t get it wrong on a nice gun

Click to expand...

This is the best man for the job. IMO