Time to make some changes to our Team selection

[Salopian]

Well we have just seen another World Championship come and go.

Is it not now the time to restructure our National Teams?

Team USA came as a Team, performed as a team and behaved as a team.

Due to the efforts of Judy Morris and others, Team USA are well funded, well organised and well behaved.

The English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish and British are often not our strongest teams, are left to their own devices and are dreadfully underfunded.Cheryl Hall couldn't be bothered to compete, George & Richard didn't represent their country. So what is going wrong?

I have said it before and I will repeat, USA are soon to be World leaders in another British sport, just like Golf( Who remembers USA knocking the England Team out of the football World Cup).

It is time to stop the rot and fund our teams far better and encourage people (the best) to represent their country.

It really is time to stop our National Executives from taking their golf clubs on tour and sod the grassy knoll and Southfork. Next year ( NOW) we need a well funded team of the best and managed correctly.

 

[maddmatt]

Cheryl was busy representing team GB at the European Compak in France, GD, RF and a few others have all shot for England and GB and they do not want to shoot the selection shoots. This discussion has been going on for ages, the problem we have in this Country is...

1. Shooting is an individual pursuit, and the top shots mindset is to win for themselves first and they are not geared towards team events

2. Shooting is being kept an amateur sport by the governing bodies to protect the numbers that shoot at grass root levels instead of looking at ways to make the sport professional

3. Shooting is a fringe sport in this Country

4. While point 2 exists no serious sponsor will back the team to the level it requires

5. We take pride in the fact that any Joe Bloggs can shoot with World Champions atbthe same time and the same event, there is a very good reason this does not happen in any other sport, in Golf the amateur champion gets invited to play in the US Masters, but he is the only one...

6. Look at the response when anyone mentions dress code or enforcing rules, the general reaction is, its MY hobby why should I have to (insert any number of reasons here)

Personally I think if you enter an event like the Worlds Sporting or World/European FITASC championships there should be a dress code that is the same level as golf, and then you may start tonget the level of professionlism that attracts sponsorship. Just my pennies worth...

 

[Paul_B]

The US effectively knocked England out of the 1950 Football World Cup, do you remember that far back? How old are you?

 

[Jan Powell]

Well we have just seen another World Championship come and go.

Is it not now the time to restructure our National Teams?

Team USA came as a Team, performed as a team and behaved as a team.

Due to the efforts of Judy Morris and others, Team USA are well funded, well organised and well behaved.

The English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish and British are often not our strongest teams, are left to their own devices and are dreadfully underfunded.Cheryl Hall couldn't be bothered to compete, George & Richard didn't represent their country. So what is going wrong?

I have said it before and I will repeat, USA are soon to be World leaders in another British sport, just like Golf( Who remembers USA knocking the England Team out of the football World Cup).

It is time to stop the rot and fund our teams far better and encourage people (the best) to represent their country.

It really is time to stop our National Executives from taking their golf clubs on tour and sod the grassy knoll and Southfork. Next year ( NOW) we need a well funded team of the best and managed correctly.

It's a problem across the disciplines. The World DTL championship was in New Zealand a couple of months ago. Several of those selected to represent England didn't go and I don't blame them. The CPSA contribution doesn't cover the cost and few can afford weeks off work given the state of jobs and the economy.

There's more sponsorship in DTL than just about any other domestic discipline but even that doesn't offset the cost. I'd love to see the CPSA properly funding shooters but I guess it's a hard sell given that the vast majority of the membership have no desire or aspiration to reach that level.

Add to that, representing your country just doesn't mean as much as it used to for many. Shooters participation in the discipline is up but numbers at the selection shoots are dwindling year on year and there's no sign of it stopping.

 

[Bryn12]

Twas ever thus, unless its soccer or maybe athletics then every sport in the UK is chronically underfunded and a factor in my packing in smallbore. I think many of us have ambitions to represent our countries but lack of facilities and the sheer cost means that only those with deep pockets and/or have an inside track to sponsorship and/or insanely dedicated parents can hope to reach their potential.

On the other hand where is all this funding to come from and who decides which individuals should receive the funding.

 

[Salopian]

Bryn,

       Perhaps we should ask the Americans how they fund and select their team? Remember they have an enormous population, many of whom actually shoot.

BUT, Our association the CPSA has had massive amounts of money and gone and wasted it on numerous  expenditures such as legal costs.

Team selection should not be a difficult choice to field the strongest team possible .

But we do have to stop this utter waste of money on legal disputes, unfair dismissal compensation etc.

Perhaps we should look at finding sponsorship for Team Clothing from Musto, Barbour, or a British clothing manufacturer who could profit from sales from the shooting community. Perhaps we should find sponsorship from an airline who would profit from business from travellers from the shooting community.

Perhaps we could find sponsorship for our major events such as The Worlds, The English Open, The British Open , The Classic , The Essex Masters and such like. Perhaps we should employ a commercial manager ? 

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Salopian ....I'll vote for you.....when are you starting...?

(Does this mean that you decided to stand for SW job? Or if you are just talking about teams fundraising? Or project support funding? Or development funding?)

Can i say that you should be the male version of Judy Morris for the UK.....and get everyone organised.

How can we help? Who are you thinking of targeting first .....are we going for corporate city sponsorship....(I like the Airlines idea...but I do not think there enough of us travelling with guns for them to notice really).

It would be great to get a connection with an airline though and make it part of their 'promoting winning teams' etc. The Spanish Fed had an airline deal last year...and also a hotel chain deal.

Set us down a plan and lets see what we can do.

If this is a matter burning in the heart of all shooters then I am sure there will be many who want to help get more sponsorship into the sport.

So.....how do we get started.....?

 

[Mike]

I remembered reading this http://mag.digitalpc.co.uk/fvx/bbp/csusa/1206-07/

The article is on page 120, a guideline for those who are interested?

 

[maddmatt]

All been looked at before, I refer you to point 2 of my previous post, it is, IMO the main reason holding the sport back in the UK and will continue to do so while the CPSA maintain their stance on this...

 

[Bryn12]

Thing is though, to be competitive at the top level you have be 'professional' even if unpaid. As I see it many of the top shooters in the UK work within the shooting industry and their shooting is 'subsidised' by benefits in kind of some type.

If clay shooting in the UK wants to expand the pool of talent available then somehow it has to encourage the development of grass-roots shooting, support up and coming talent as well as fund the GB teams. It cannot continue as some kind of 'Gentleman Amateur' 'club in short in short it needs to go professional.

 

[Salopian]

Mike Hill, Thank you for highlighting the article about Judy Morris.

Nicola, MaddMatt, anyone else who is interested,

We start at the beginning, organising a meeting of those who may be interested, preferably at CPSA HQ and involving the CEO.

This is fundamentally not a very difficult task to select our strongest teams in any discipline and to find funding for them.

I have volunteered my help and assistance many times to the CPSA, and previously having raised funds to take Shropshire, West Midlands Region, Coaching and Safety into profit.

But sadly CPSA HQ have declined my offers of assistance.

Whilst we are talking about sponsorship, could someone at HQ make sure that Brian Jardine of Promatic and Edgar Brothers are recognised correctly for their support and considerable sponsorship.

Sadly I doubt that I would ever be asked to help as life would possibly be a little uncomfortable for a while.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Can someone direct me to where on here there is a thread of thanks to all our England shooters who won medals?

There are so many posts on different subjects that I think that i have missed it.

3 team golds, 2 team silvers, 2 individuals in the top 3 (already seen that mentioned)...and also a new Ladies Junior World Title, Disabled Gold Silver and Bronze and colts had i think 2 silvers and a bronze (between the girls and boys).

I have looked but i cannot find one?

Great teams need to be thanked for all their hard work and effort.

P.s. I think the Welsh did alright as well....i think a ladies silver individual?

Edit ...As i do not know the sporting shooters well....I well may be wrong.

 

[maddmatt]

Mike Hill, Thank you for highlighting the article about Judy Morris.

Nicola, MaddMatt, anyone else who is interested,

We start at the beginning, organising a meeting of those who may be interested, preferably at CPSA HQ and involving the CEO.

This is fundamentally not a very difficult task to select our strongest teams in any discipline and to find funding for them.

I have volunteered my help and assistance many times to the CPSA, and previously having raised funds to take Shropshire, West Midlands Region, Coaching and Safety into profit.

But sadly CPSA HQ have declined my offers of assistance.

Whilst we are talking about sponsorship, could someone at HQ make sure that Brian Jardine of Promatic and Edgar Brothers are recognised correctly for their support and considerable sponsorship.

Sadly I doubt that I would ever be asked to help as life would possibly be a little uncomfortable for a while.

The CPSA will decline all offers of help, even Corporate offers because they have a very different agenda they are working towards, I don't have exact details but believe me its self serving and does not include making the sport professional.

 

[Sian]

Can someone direct me to where on here there is a thread of thanks to all our England shooters who won medals?

There are so many posts on different subjects that I think that i have missed it.

3 team golds, 2 team silvers, 2 individuals in the top 3 (already seen that mentioned)...and also a new Ladies Junior World Title, Disabled Gold Silver and Bronze and colts had i think 2 silvers and a bronze (between the girls and boys).

I have looked but i cannot find one?

Great teams need to be thanked for all their hard work and effort.

P.s. I think the Welsh did alright as well....i think a ladies silver individual?

Edit ...As i do not know the sporting shooters well....I well may be wrong.

Yes the Welsh did well and Janine Preece came away third in Ladies - good for her.  I stayed to the end in the dark clapping away being bitten by the sodding midges.   I would only have one thing to say about the final and that would be make sure it starts earlier in the day because it was hard to see some of the targets and the prize giving was practically in the dark albeit a floodlight went on eventually.

 

[Bryn12]

Its not just the CPSA, it's the whole attitude of those at the top of pretty much every sporting governing body in the UK. Far too many are from the era of the 'gifted amateur' who have no concept of just what it takes to compete at the highest level these days and resent those coming through with the kind of attitude that is required to make it in today's sporting environment.

It's simply not enough to be very naturally talented, that natural talent needs to be fully developed, polished and honed. To do that you need enough resources - time, money, facilities and the willingness to gain the knowledge and experience to get every last bit of performance from both yourself and your kit, which in turn requires the help of specialists, whether gunsmiths,sports psychologists, specialist opticians ............

America, Australia, New Zealand and a whole host of other countries are leaving GB trailing way behind those at the top of sport GB need to be honest and tell us whether they want to be competitive in global sport or settle for being also rans and good losers

 

[Les53]

Leaving aside disciplines or groups of disciplines, I am curious as to how other countries fund their teams. Countries such as the USA and Italy seem to benefit from greater funding, judging from what I've seen of things over the years, so what is the difference? How do the likes of  the USA and Italy manage to fund their teams properly when we apparently cannot? Where do the Americans and Italians actually get the money from to do such a big job on it?

 

[DT10 MAL]

Simple, increase CPSA subs by £15 and ask all life members to pay £50 for next 5 years and that would raise £1.65M+ based on 22,000 members.

Or apply a £1 sub at every shoot to support teams (yes I know collecting this way may be difficult).

You reduce the subs down if corporate sponsorship is received. 

 

[maddmatt]

In other Countries there is not the same level of stigma associated with guns and therefore shooting, also the CPSA is not fit for purpose IMO and I would question that any increase in membership fee or levy would then be spent on the appropriate program, i.e. Team Funding.

The Americans benefit in 2 ways, firstly, they attract much higher entries to National events, simply because there are more of them and secondly, the shooting industry is not afraid to put money into the team. The other reason is, when you get selected to shoot for team USA, you accept your place and the conditions that go with it, if you don't like the conditions you are asked to leave and not represent your Country. These conditions include, wearing coordinated team clothing, EVEN when practicing at closed sessions at shooting grounds. Travelling together (generally from when you leave the Country, although if circumstances dictate, you can arrive on a different flight) on the team bus to the ground whether that is for practice, the opening ceremony, the main event or the closing ceremony. They use the same cartridges when they shoot for the team, I believe that is currently Remington when they are in the states, not sure what they use when overseas, but they will all use the same brand. 

They support each other regardless of whether they actually like the person or not, the team is all that matters, something we do not have or seem to have the appetite to implement.

 

[Bryn12]

Matt I can't comment on the CPSA but you are certainly right on the nail with everything else.