Time for change

[Salopian]

Reading the many comments about how poor the English open organisation was, how poor the administration by the CPSA at the Worlds at EJC. How CPSA Board function is basically an old pals meeting place and the really poor state our sport is descending into . Is it not now time for change or are we just going to muddle along as we have done for a good many years now?

There is a situation now where we the competitors are being served up very poor events every time the CPSA is involved.

But the staff who represent the CPSA at events are always pleasant, helpful and efficient, so it has to be down to lack of leadership and lack of guidance , knowledge and interest at the top. So how long can this continue?

People have very short memories, but can you remember the fiasco at the British at Fauxdegla, Doveridge , now the Worlds and English. The rot needs to be stopped NOW.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Salopian you are talking to an empty room as usual.

People could not be bothered to vote for who runs the Association.....so they will have no interest in this.

What I am interested in though is the new project being set up by the Hustler and ten of our top shots.....in a sort of PSCA tour way. They have secured a sponsor and 1/2 a million quid in backing.

 

[shootinguru]

What a lot of cpsa members don't realise is that the majority of the cpsa head office staff are NOT shooters! also they know very little of running and designing

shoots.

Another point is if your face doesent fit you will not get a major c/ship!  there is a lot of ass kissing required? annoy the cpsa as a ground owner and you are out in the cold for a long time! :fie:  

 

[maddmatt]

Sal, 3 problems stick out for me with the CPSA...

1. It is run by a CEO and Board that are self serving

2. They are set on ensuring the sports stays a grass root amateur sport as this ensures their survival and keeps point 1 in tact

3. The Governing body needs splitting, the popular disciplines are being used to prop up the poorly supported ones. In order to move forward they need to create a divison that manages and promotes the professional side of the sport, this would cover what BH is trying to do, dress code etc, disciplinary action if you bring the sport into disrupte etc AND a divison that supports the grass root amateur

You will never get the level of corporate sponsorship while the sport is run the way it is now, some shooters at the English Open were wearing shell tracksuits, how would that make the sport look?

 

[stevekeat]

Same goes for dressing like Rambo or ray Mears. We are not in the wilderness so why dress like you are on SAS selection.

 

[Darkside]

In all seriousness, what should the minimum dress standard be? Golf club standard? I like to shoot in UA golf polo shirts, smart jeans, smart fleece, UA base layers, Nike's trainers (when the weather allows) Honey colour Timberland boots or Neoprene wellies (nice clean pair that I don't milk cows in!) Black UA goretex waterproofs, skeet vest and cartridge branded cap. Come to think of it, most of my clay shooting clothing comes from the local golf pro shop!!!

 

[Santa2512]

Dress code for me is easy

When i did archery, it was ,

Practice & non club days, jeans,  T shirt, sweat shirt etc..  in short, anything comfortable

Club days & competitions ,  Whites or Greens    (White trousers , & shirt, green jumper)  Ladies were the same.  Club day was every Sunday

If it was an external competition, white's / greens were compulsory

The biggest argument was  Shades of green ., the amount of time that got debated .

Mart

 

[westley]

What a lot of cpsa members don't realise is that the majority of the cpsa head office staff are NOT shooters! also they know very little of running and designing

shoots.

Another point is if your face doesent fit you will not get a major c/ship!  there is a lot of ass kissing required? annoy the cpsa as a ground owner and you are out in the cold for a long time! :fie:  

YEP, I CAN VOUCH FOR THAT ONE !

 

[Salopian]

It is all very well taking an interest in a Pro Tour but that does nothing for the grass roots shooter .

The only way this sport can grow is to have a complete clearout at the CPSA.

Unfortunately you are correct Nicola, the majority of the membership are just not bothered.

So we will always have what we already have, total contempt for the average member.

How about not renewing your CPSA annual membership ? How would that affect you?

Not at all! You could still shoot the same shoots, the only thing you couldn't do is represent your County or Country ( most top shots don't do that in any case) and you couldn't do blue ribbon events such as the World's, English & British, which are actually ruined by the CPSA in any case.

 

[no.1topdog]

Same goes for dressing like Rambo or ray Mears. We are not in the wilderness so why dress like you are on SAS selection.

I like to shoot in UA golf polo shirts, smart jeans, smart fleece, UA base layers, Nike's trainers (when the weather allows) Honey colour Timberland boots or Neoprene wellies (nice clean pair that I don't milk cows in!) Black UA goretex waterproofs, skeet vest and cartridge branded cap. Come to think of it, most of my clay shooting clothing comes from the local golf pro shop!!!

You'll have us all dressed up like "Dandys" at this rate, complete with frilly shirts and maybe bow ties?

As Clay Shooting evolved from Game Shooting, and as a part time game shooter, I prefer the colours of the countryside, and I'm afraid that does include a fair amount of drab greens and browns.

The thought of wearing pink shirts and yellow trousers fills me with dread! :fie:   But you see them like this at every registered shoot (Sporting at least!) This does however, give me an endless source of amusement, as certain characters proceed to "out peacock" each other. I'm sure it's either a cry for help or an air of exhibitionism.

Smart - Yes, but rainbow coloured, well it's just not for me. If you want to dress as a golfer, go play golf! Personally I prefer to look like a shooting man, just varying the amount of tweed according to the season. It's kind of like a "Corporate Identity" thing. You'll know I shoot because I look like I do, and I'm not ashamed of that!   :biggrin:

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Two things.

Scouser track suits are unfortunately now the official uniform for ISSF disciplines world wide. All athletes have to wear these at ISSF International events and podium positions.

Thankfully FITASC disciplines are still blazer uniform .

Shooting wear has to smarten up if we are to be taken seriously for mainstream TV.

(P.s. Sorry TD.... I love colours in the sport, especially in hot countries .....much cooler in the sun. I wear red, yellow bright green trousers and jeans. But back in UK where it is foooooooking freezing today....I go back to my game shooting roots....greens, browns and of course jodhpurs :wink: )

 

[Darkside]

Clay shooting is a target sport in its own right, the concept may have originated from a desire to replicate game shooting...but clay shooting has evolved way past 'replicating game'.

You are the only one talking about pink shirts and yellow trousers!!! Nobody has suggested a ban on 'countryside colour'...only an improved minimum dress code!!!

Golf is the biggest participant sport in the world, the sport has a dress code, rules, governing bodies, codes of conduct, it's inclusive yet aspirational, socially acceptable, has a club side, corporate side, pro side, a huge world televised audiance, sponsorship...and yet it is just a game people play, knocking a little white ball round some fields called a 'course', people in compitition against each other trying to 'build a score', who would ever have thought that a camera could pick up the flight of a ball little more than an inch in diameter, film it through the air, have comintators explain the shot by shot, player by player action...ring any bells? As for wearing clothing developed for golf, it's a no brainier!!! There have been dozens of clothing manufacturers, spending vast sums of money trying to design better materials, better fitting clothing for keeping players warm/dry/cool/comfortable while allowing them free movment...ring any bells?

You want to look like a bumpkin, be my guest...just make an effort to look like a smart and tidy bumpkin!!!

 

[no.1topdog]

These colours you mention, they just don't go with my eyes?? :sarcastic:

Thankfully the nearest I will ever get to shooting in a hot country is on The English Riviera. I guess I'm just more "traditional".

"Bumpkin"!!!! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Perhaps I'll have my Tailor consult your Tailor for some ideas!  "Bumpkin!!! Ho! Ho! Ho!  :sarcastic:

I wore a red shirt once and got a huge amount of verbal abuse. I was standing at the wrong end of Stamford Bridge when Chelsea played Man Utd though. Now that was a fashion faux pas!!  :sarcastichand:

 

[Skeetfreak]

How the heck did we get to the debate on "dress code" from Salopian's original post?

I have absolutely no bone to pick with the CPSA - never been to a championship where i had cause for complaint - knew the skeet @ SC would be a problem last year so dodged it. In fact i have shot very little CPSA backed events this year so far (in fact none) so how can i possibly complain?

I do not fully understand the issues surrounding the English Open - won  with a fantastic score of 98 by Mark Winsor. Every other complaint i have read is a matter of opinion - one way or the other. It's impossible to please all the people all the time and i gave that up a long time ago.

End of the day there are lots of fantastic shoots that are not CPSA backed - it is always possible to go shoot them.

I do have an issue with people trying to enforce a dress code - telling me what size logo's i can and cannot have on my clothes, telling me i must wear a certain length of arm in my t-shirt, telling me i must wear tailored shorts which come to a certain length. Blah blah blah......... My ideal is on a bright sunny day i want to be wearing a pair of shorts, T-Shirt, shell pouch and then cap, glasses and ear plugs. When its lashing it down with rain i want to be at home by the fire in the warm - or on holiday in the warm. 

Dressing like golfers is NOT going to change the public's perception of our sport - simple as that! There is only one thing going to change the public's opinion of shooting - publicity and LOTS of investment. In my time as a golf fan i have never seen the clothes they wear change the person they are, smartly dressed golfers still snap clubs, throw tantrums and set bad examples. Footballers in their club strip - still dive and cheat, Tennis players argue with umpires, smash rackets. Rugby players - stamp and gouge eyes, Pick any sport and the uniform / kit / strip they wear often covered in their sponsors logo does not alter who they are or what they do. Some even  commit serious crimes while out in the wide world when they are supposed to be setting an example for the millions who idolize them.

Our trouble is that when a shooters steps out of line the world at large leaps on it as usually it has at least the potential to affect others. But shooters are no worse as humans than any other sports person. Its the perception  we need to alter not the clothes we wear - only way to do that is to let the public see us behaving like decent human beings out in the open. Finding a way to get our sport out there and show that there are thousands of us who are genuine nice people who "just want to shoot and compete". I spend hours talking to non shooting people about my sport showing the positive side and the effort involved to compete - telling them how to "have a go". Organising works events etc.

This to me should be the focus of the multitude of shooting bodies in the UK.

The championships should not need to be interfered with by them, the grounds are capable of doing this - trouble is they are not left to do their job or there seems to be a misguidance that the CPSA should be doing more for them and the championship gets lost in the middle ground.

The CPSA should not need to be worrying about if the targets are set sensibly by the course setter, wether the referee's know the rules, whether ALL competitors and spectators can access the venue safely and easily. They should simply be awarding the championship and administering the results - plus any pre event guidance IF requested by the ground.

The ground should be responsible for the rest and held accountable for such. Failure to do so effectively without having asked for assistance would mean some form of retribution. I cannot see why ground owners cannot turn to each other for support and advice instead of seeing it as a slight / competition that another ground has a championship in a particular year.

We don't see the FA / PREMIERSHIP telling football clubs how their stadiums should be run / the pitch condition, We don't see the ECB telling the cricket clubs the same either, I don't see the R&A telling the host club how a championship golf course is to be set up, I don't see PGA interference at Augusta National........

Sometimes less is more - let the people who know the ground make the decisions maybe?

In the mean time i am off to shoot NSSA skeet as its a lot less complicated it seems. 

 

[Les53]

.

Scouser track suits are unfortunately now the official uniform for ISSF disciplines world wide. All athletes have to wear these at ISSF International events and podium positions.

I hate those track/shell suit things!!! The ISSF need to get to Spec Savers, track/shell suits and trainers are just so chavy and most people dumped such horrible kit in the bin back in the 1980's. As was said above, the companies that make golf clothing do some really good stuff that is smart (if that's your thing!) as well as being comfortable. As for me....well I'm a blue jeans ,T shirt and deck shoes man myself. But track suits and trainers?.............Nah......

 

[maddmatt]

Out of interest, if someone stopped being a member of the CPSA, they could still shoot registered shoots, although would be classed on the day so probably wouldn't win much (not a huge issue I hear you say)  BUT not shoot any majors?

So, if that someone joined the NSSA or French Federation they would be entitled to shoot all the Majors in this Country, is that correct?

 

[Les53]

Out of interest, if someone stopped being a member of the CPSA, they could still shoot registered shoots, although would be classed on the day so probably wouldn't win much (not a huge issue I hear you say)  BUT not shoot any majors?

So, if that someone joined the NSSA or French Federation they would be entitled to shoot all the Majors in this Country, is that correct?

That's a very good question Matt, I'm sure someone will be along soon to tell us the answer!

 

[Skeetfreak]

Maddmatt,

Not sure i understand the question......

But if i have it right your asking if as a member of NSSA you could enter the CPSA skeet majors (for example) - then my answer would be NO you couldn't.

You could however enter the NSSA majors held here in the UK - Ironman, UK Open, BSSA Open, European Open. Plus any NSSA registered shoots as you NEED to be a member to enter these.

 

[maddmatt]

This is the NSCA membership form, very interesting reading, especially the $40 joining fee!! And the section for donating to the greater cause...