Longthorne - Impressions?

[Zulu Dave]

Spoke to the man with the 'Longthorne' gun today and he has confirmed that anyone contacting them would be more than welcome to try the demo models first.

The first 30 minutes is not the real concern that I have....its the next 4 years. 

 

[Jeremy Baker]

I spoke to longthorne this weekend at the Shotgun and Chelsea conference to let them know about Shootclay.
Maybe they'll join up

 

[EdSolomons]

Lovely looking guns, not sure about the barrels...

 

[westley]

With reference to the barrels, I picked up some SECOND HAND information on Sunday. Longthorne apparently tested their barrels for,............... wait fot it .............................P.O.I. ! using a pair of laser beams down each barrel. It transpires that at 30 yards the distance between the two laser dots was some 2" apart. Other top quality makes were also tested and produced some suprising results. Theoretically, the barrels made from one piece and then machine bored out, using computer technology, should be far more accurate than 2 seperate tubes stuck together by whatever means, and then ribs soldered on afterwards. It should also alleviate one of the biggest problems with barrels, the fact that rust can develop unseen behind the attached ribs. I once saw a Shadow Indy with a vented centre rib, blow up, caused by just that. How many shooters test their guns for P.O.I. other than by firing at a pattern plate ? This method leaves plenty of scope for human error. 

 

[Will Hewland]

Yes the barrels is the selling point to me. Modern machining. Like it.

 

[EdSolomons]

Look unfinished and cheap to me. Sorry!

 

[Will Hewland]

Look unfinished and cheap to me. Sorry!

Never looked at them up close Ed, so no idea how they look. But as an engineer, if I (at my factory) were given something similar to gun barrels to manufacture, we would use modern CNC machinery to make a strong accurate one piece component; as opposed to the crazy lining up and joining together of lots of parts by ancient bonding techniques.

 

[EdSolomons]

Have a look and let me know what you think! Rest of them looks lovely but that bit made my toes curl...

 

[Zulu Dave]

Look unfinished and cheap to me. Sorry!

...haha, says the bloke using a K80!   :spiteful:

I hear you though Ed - not quite the nice flowing lines from a traditional solid side rib expected from the rest of the very (beautiful) traditional gun. But I do agree with Clever on the engineering too.  I'm up there early next month looking at them a bit closer, so I'll let you know my shooting impressions. 

I'll see you on the 21st too. 

 

[BoB1]

How are normal shotgun barrels made? Do they start with a forged bar, then ream it out (with a special lathe or similar)?

Would forged barrels be stronger than machined billet ones Re: grain structure?

 

[jwpzx9r]

Don't want to sound rude but major manufacturers could buy and sell this company tomorrow and no one would know about it. CNC tech for big manufacturers is cheap not expensive so this does not stack up as a reason for them not using it...in other words there must be some other reason. It is another area but Perazzi for example still use the human eye to straighten their barrels rather than other optical methods... why????? It is known though that the human eye is more sensitive to the colour of visible light than some of the best spectrophotometers. Never assume that techno trumps the human eye and the benefits thereof  !

 

[ips]

Very interesting John. As you say if there are benefits then its strange that the big mfrs have not done this already ?

Do vented single barrels joined together dissipate heat better ?

 

[Will Hewland]

Sigh.. They don't make F1 cars by some old boy filing and soldering.. Get a grip folks..

 

[jwpzx9r]

Sigh.. They don't make F1 cars by some old boy filing and soldering.. Get a grip folks..

Explain please they are not making a formula one race car and as I have said and if you want give me a dispute CNC is cheap not expensive! There must be a reason they do this could be the overall balance of the gun and as Ian has said the heat dissipation of the barrels is critical to the performance of the barrels... but don't sigh and assume that there is any thing other than cheap reproducibility at the heart of CNC techno. I have an inkling that Perazzi know something about their business that you don't! Sigh

 

[Will Hewland]

You can create pretty much anything you require, at excellent levels of accuracy using modern CNC machinery. It is not magic; you still need good engineers and good programmers to get it right. I have no idea where you get the idea that it is some sort of compromise measure. Any venting etc. is absolutely possible with CNC milling, it is not the domain of separately assembled parts. The only reason why the old measures are used is down to tradition. Longthorne have looked at the problem with a fresh view and conclude that modern machinery is the answer. IF their barrels are not the ultimate design then that is an aside from the method of manufacture I believe.

I have run a cutting edge engineering business for many years and the major expense I incur of implementing modern machinery (such as 5 axis milling) has been about the increase in capability. This does have the by product of economy in many instances, but the main effect is always cleverer shapes, better integrity and improved product.

 

[Will Hewland]

An anecdote I have to add.. I remember asking a good gunsmith how many shots I would put through my Perazzi before the coil springs failed. His answer to me was "it's not F1; you can't say exactly". What cobblers. He didn't know because nobody measures or takes note. The very same laws of physics apply in all cases, but shooting is pretty antiquated at times. The fine traditions of what began hundreds of years ago can become excuses for outdated standards in 2014 IMO.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Clever I am not knocking modern methods of manufacture... but if something is not broken don't try to fix it. When Longthorne guns,or any other manufacturer for that matter, have been used to win as many world class competitions as Perazzi they can let us know about it.
I relate their gun in many ways to a long forgotten motorcycle that was going to be the best British bike ever the Hesketh !!?? built by the once famous formula one manufacturer..... biggest pile of shoite ever turned out of a British motorcycle factory, although as always someone will say they are just the dogs danglies.

Edit

The reference to the Hesketh does not mean I think the Longthorne is a pile of poo far from it probably a very good gun, what I am saying is just because you throw some engineering at something it does not mean the product will live up to what is promised.

 

[ips]

I am not knocking the concept but i am intrigued as to why b p or k have not used the same method if there are benefits ?

 

[Will Hewland]

K80 barrels are separate entities, unjointed so in their case it would make sense to produce separately and join; I reckon..

 

[Zulu Dave]

The concept of what Longthornes does is no new.  The Idea was patented by Joseph Whitworth in 1857 but  no technology to implement it until CNC.

And everybody apart from Hollands, Purdey use CNC.  (although it is used on their cheaper Continental inspired guns so I suppose they do). Why don't P and K adopt the same technology if its so bloody great?  Why bother, as long as we are buying their guns and arguing that the old ways are still the best ways.