Is it the gun?

[Skeet UK]

Greeting Dudes and Dudettes,

So...I have a Beretta Silver Pigeon 1, has worked fine for me, made some mods to it, ISIS2 etc.

Recently I have lost a bit of weight and I have started to notice odd misses and shooting up the right side of Teals etc.

It all "looks" OK, when I mount the gun, but it doesn't feel like a solid cheek weld, so I suspect i am coming over and looking down the right side of the rib a touch, when actually shooting.

I tried my mates left handed DT10 (I am a righty).  This comes up solid as anything and for the two stands that I tried it, I straighted 12 for 12 on both.

So naturally I did the only thing I could and assume that the DT10 fits me better.  But, is it just that it fits me better, or is it because it is a "better gun"?

I took the time to take some measurements off the two guns for cast etc.  The DT10 seems to have about 6mm "cast on" and my SP1 has about 4mm "cast off".  I also noted that the DT10 is a touch thicker in the stock, where my cheek goes.

The drop at comb and heel is also slightly less on the DT10.

Ignoring fit for a moment, I also checked the point of balance.  The DT10 balances right on the hinge pin but my gun is about .75 inches back from the hinge pin, towards the stock  So adding weight to the forend would correct this.

So is it more the DT10 being superior or , if I adjust my gun to similar dimensions and balance, would I see an improvement?

Have any of you used Dr Scholl Moleskin to make comb/stock adjustments?

Erm...cheers for reading,hope I have made some sense!

Gaz

 

[Hawkeye]

need to change the balance point?

Insert some standard chokes instead of the  'lightweight ' Muller's you keep ramming down our throat's

 

[T.C.]

Loosing or gaining weight will change your facial dimensions . This is sometimes enough to change the fit of the gun. I would advise checking with a pattern plate to see if the gun still shoots where you are looking before doing anything expensive!

 

[Skeet UK]

need to change the balance point?

Insert some standard chokes instead of the  'lightweight ' Muller's you keep ramming down our throat's

Hell no!  I like a decent pattern, thanks very much.  I will add weight where I need it, rather than have it hanging about at the end.  I would prefer the weight between my hands.  Incidentally, the DT10 also has Mullers in it

Not entirely sure that I am ramming anything down anyone's throat, but obviously if the subject of chokes comes up and a suitable question is asked, naturally I will mention them, because I like them.  

@T.C.  Yeah, I don't think it has changed too much, but obviously enough.  I thought I would try this Moleskin stuff , as it is cheap and you can apply in layers to get the desired thickness.  Cheers dude!

 

[RobertBeard]

If there is 10mm difference between the 2 guns in cast then perhaps your existing gun's cast needs to be altered?

Whilst 10mm doesn't sound a lot  by the time the shot is 40 yards out it could be why you are missing some.

Perhaps you need someone good to reassess your gun fit

 

[Skeet UK]

If there is 10mm difference between the 2 guns in cast then perhaps your existing gun's cast needs to be altered?

Whilst 10mm doesn't sound a lot  by the time the shot is 40 yards out it could be why you are missing some.

Perhaps you need someone good to reassess your gun fit

It isn't a 10mm difference, as with one have 6mm on  a left handed gun and 4mm on a right, a portion of it is cancelled out, along with the thicker stock.

I think the difference is about 3mm that would improve it for me, I am just curious of anyone has noticed an appreciable difference between something like a DT10 and a "lesser" gun, in that way...if you know what I mean.  Am I pinning lots on the fit, or is some of the experience down to the DT10 just being "better". 

 

[RobertBeard]

According to this

http://www.positiveshooting.com/GunFittingP2Main.html

Cast on is cast to the left and cast off is cast to the right so how do these cancel out, apart from the change in thickness of the stock.

I don't think the handedness of the gun comes into it other than a leftie would normally expect to have cast on and a rightie would expect to have a stock cast off

 

[Hawkeye]

It isn't a 10mm difference, as with one have 6mm on  a left handed gun and 4mm on a right, a portion of it is cancelled out, along with the thicker stock.

I think the difference is about 3mm that would improve it for me, I am just curious of anyone has noticed an appreciable difference between something like a DT10 and a "lesser" gun, in that way...if you know what I mean.  Am I pinning lots on the fit, or is some of the experience down to the DT10 just being "better". 

Buy a DT10 . . . you know you want to

 

[Chard]

 

[squimp]

Sounds like a trip to a decent gunfitter at a shooting range with BOTH guns is in order.

 

[Skeet UK]

Buy a DT10 . . . you know you want to

Well..this is part of the reason for using my friends gun...he is away over Christmas, so he has signed it over to me for a bit.  This way I can use it for a couple of whole shoots, rather than a few stands and see what the improvement is.  I want either a DT10 or a DT11.  Darkside seems very happy with his and I do love the way they look.  In the mean time, I have to wait for my kids to fill their piggy banks, before they accidentally get "lost" and i can get one!  So I wondered if adjusting my own gun further might tide me over.

@BobertBeard.  It cancels each other out, because the cast is relative to the centre line of the rib, so the barrels are moving towards each other with the guns side to side.  So in this case, the DT10 puts the barrels 2mm or so further over to my right eye and the extra stock thickness (on what would be the outside of the stock), gives me a bit more.  If my gun was straight cast, it would fit me (now)...see what I mean?

I need to either move my barrels to the right (reducing the the RH cast) which I cant do (won't do), or move my face away from the gun (to the left), which I can do by building the stock up.  I will probably also adjust the comb height in the same way and try and get it parallel to the rib for a short distance too. 

@squimp:  Well hopefully that will be Mr Solomans next year and in the mean time, a Blue Peter job by me!

 

[Clanchief]

Before all the expense of gunfitting, try wearing a balaclava to build up the face, you may need to wear three or four at the same time to build up 10mm but at least you will be cosy. 

 

[Skeet UK]

Before all the expense of gunfitting, try wearing a balaclava to build up the face, you may need to wear three or four at the same time to build up 10mm but at least you will be cosy. 

Too cozy... Woolly Hats make me itch after a while, heaven knows what a bunch of those would do!  This is why I wondered if anybody had used this Dr Scholl Moleskin stuff to make adjustments.

 

[Hawkeye]

Too cozy?

More like a Tea Cozy

 

[paulos]

Are you sure you aren't just overthinking things? I'm sure it's near enough...

 

[T.C.]

The conventional way to check stock thickness/height was to use a cheek-eeze pad. If it has the desired effect you can take the protective strip off and glue it to the stock.

 

[Fuzrat]

Thicker combs do help to stop you rolling your head over the comb apparently. Bit of card and some electrical tape would do for starters

 

[Kentskeet]

Are you sure you aren't just overthinking things? I'm sure it's near enough...

It's a shotgun, Near enough will be good enough, even at 40 yds!

 

[Skeet UK]

Are you sure you aren't just overthinking things? I'm sure it's near enough...

Well...I tend not to do near enough.  Thing is, when I consciously mount the gun, I can look at it and see everything looks right...but this is conscious.

My theory is that when actually shooting and I'm all "GRRR in the gun!", especially gun down as with sporting, my head is creeping over and I am not getting the sight picture that I think I am.  Equally, I could be obstructing my eye, so my left eye takes over, which would be pretty bad.  But I think it is more the former.  

I can make my head sit on the stock, upright etc but be able to see down the right side of the rib, so clearly this is not the centre of the rib and the resultant error is likely to be serious on the longer stuff.

@T.C.  Yeah, sounds like a plan, thanks.

@Fuzrat.  This is what I will try and do.  Possibly with some of this Moleskin stuff or CheekEeze and some other goodies.  try and get the comb parallel as well.