Fiocchi
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Will Hewland
Well-known member
They are not rubbish and if you like them, that's great. The kills from the dense centre will be rewarding at times i expect. For me, they are just a touch down on pattern quality and a touch up on recoil from my usual brand, so won't be changing.
tom b young
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 28, 2012
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Fair doo's - I'm not trying to convert anyone! A tight pattern out to 40 yards is all I can ask for, the rest is down to me. I wonder how they compare pattern wise with their Super Sporting shell? FBLU is a trap shell after all and I'm led to believer a tight pattern at range is a desirable attribute for your trap cartridge/shooter.
Will Hewland
Well-known member
I tried some today, alongside my usual Clever. The FBlu are definitely louder and punchier than the Clever T2. That said, nothing `wrong` with the FBlu. They did exactly what the pattern test suggested; which was to produce a spectacular ball of dust; then on the next shot a chippy kill when I was slightly off-centre.
If I might be so arrogant to suggest to Fiocchi how to develop this product; I would say: Use a smaller shot size and reduce the propellant. I reckon you will get a smoother shell with a better pattern if so.
If I might be so arrogant to suggest to Fiocchi how to develop this product; I would say: Use a smaller shot size and reduce the propellant. I reckon you will get a smoother shell with a better pattern if so.
Will,
It is far more complex than reducing the shot size and reducing the powder drop. Although I understand where your coming from.
One of the issues cartridge loaders have is the contractual supply of powders. Hull for instance use many powders that are not commercially available to other manufacturers, in fact many manufacturers tie up component suppliers, such as wads, primers and powders.
This is why we must each find a shell that suits us and stick with it.
As an example, why don't we all shoot White Gold through a Perazzi? One chap finds them to be good.
It is far more complex than reducing the shot size and reducing the powder drop. Although I understand where your coming from.
One of the issues cartridge loaders have is the contractual supply of powders. Hull for instance use many powders that are not commercially available to other manufacturers, in fact many manufacturers tie up component suppliers, such as wads, primers and powders.
This is why we must each find a shell that suits us and stick with it.
As an example, why don't we all shoot White Gold through a Perazzi? One chap finds them to be good.
Will Hewland
Well-known member
Agreed, there must be a number of ways to 'correct' the Fblu. I suggest that my suggestion would achieve it, but I am a decent example of 'a little knowledge is dangerous'. Bottom line is that I know what's wrong with them in my book and would love to see it fixed, because I love the packet they come in and the price they charge. 
)
)
Will Hewland
Well-known member
Very true. In this case I believe it's 5% antimony shot, so the bad pattern is presumably down to either cheap wad, or cheap powder. I think they use 7 UK shot to hold at least the middle of the pattern together.
The Clever T3 in UK 7 gives a superbly even pattern and is very smooth to shoot. It's another £35 per 1000..
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I thought I read somewhere that they use the same wad as the "Official" but I can't remember where I read that so I could just be talking bollox. Personally I don't pattern each and every shell I ever use so its pattern printing quality doesn't enter my head. Neither do I attempt to read into where I hit a clay. If I'm chipping a particular bird in a sporting round I would never try and adjust lead etc to hit it better/harder I just concentrate on repeating whatever I did to chip it then move on to the next stand and forget about it. In other words get it on the score card - it doesn't have to be pretty!
Presumably if we all had a set of Muller wonder chokes we could fire any old crap and still get superb patterns!
Even D&J??
Presumably if we all had a set of Muller wonder chokes we could fire any old crap and still get superb patterns!
Even D&J??
webber
Well-known member
CleverSC3
I feel that you should qualify your comment.
As I understand it you have shot a couple of handfuls.
Please explain how you deduce that the wad and or the powder are cheap?
The Fiocchi FBlu is an excellent cartridge; you didn't like it, that's fairenough; but to publish aspersions as to component quality without factual substantiation is frankly not on!
For the record, yesterday, I and one of my staff spent half the day errecting additional stores shelving to allow us to stock an additional 15K of F Blus and 15K FBlacks, this is in addition to the existing stock quantity which we were struggling to mainane due to demand.
webber
I feel that you should qualify your comment.
As I understand it you have shot a couple of handfuls.
Please explain how you deduce that the wad and or the powder are cheap?
The Fiocchi FBlu is an excellent cartridge; you didn't like it, that's fairenough; but to publish aspersions as to component quality without factual substantiation is frankly not on!
For the record, yesterday, I and one of my staff spent half the day errecting additional stores shelving to allow us to stock an additional 15K of F Blus and 15K FBlacks, this is in addition to the existing stock quantity which we were struggling to mainane due to demand.
webber
I think with every shooting product from guns, shells, chokes and glasses we are all subjected and mislead by marketing hype.
At the end of the day it is what suits you, what you can afford, and most important of all something that you have confidence in.
I have every confidence in MK38, Miroku choke boring technology, Eley Olympics, and referees eyesight. The difficult bit is down to me and that often fails me. But my smile very soon returns.
At the end of the day it is what suits you, what you can afford, and most important of all something that you have confidence in.
I have every confidence in MK38, Miroku choke boring technology, Eley Olympics, and referees eyesight. The difficult bit is down to me and that often fails me. But my smile very soon returns.
Webber,
I think he did substantiate it, he patterned a few, and compared his data with that of tests carried out with Clever T3 in the same shot size .
He prefers Clever although they cost him 3.5 pence each more, which frankly is an insignificant amount per competition.
As I said we can all be mislead by marketing hype, you love Fiocchi but I bet you love the profit more, otherwise you would be promoting something else. Now that is not a criticism of you at all. Good luck to you and more power to your elbow, Fiocchi are a good shell but they may not be £ for £ the best shell only performance can determine what the best shell is and only sales can determine what the most popular shell is.
I think he did substantiate it, he patterned a few, and compared his data with that of tests carried out with Clever T3 in the same shot size .
He prefers Clever although they cost him 3.5 pence each more, which frankly is an insignificant amount per competition.
As I said we can all be mislead by marketing hype, you love Fiocchi but I bet you love the profit more, otherwise you would be promoting something else. Now that is not a criticism of you at all. Good luck to you and more power to your elbow, Fiocchi are a good shell but they may not be £ for £ the best shell only performance can determine what the best shell is and only sales can determine what the most popular shell is.
Here we go
http://www.clay-shooting.com/reviews/fiocchi-shoots-a-winner/
Shall we talk about the weather?
http://www.clay-shooting.com/reviews/fiocchi-shoots-a-winner/
Shall we talk about the weather?
webber
Well-known member
Salopian
The fact that CleverSC3 doesn't like the Fiocchi product worries met not. He tried it and didn't like it compared to his existing cartridge.
However, he infers that certain components are "cheap" a derogatory remark in my book which requires substantiation or editing.
Yes I do like and promote Fiocchi cartridges. I shot them many years ago, but the supply dried up.
The profit per slab is minimal and relies on volume to make the effort worthwhile.
I have approached a number of other brands, generally speaking their responses have been disapointing for one reason or another; their loss will be my longterm gain. I do have plans for 2013, watch this space.
webber
The fact that CleverSC3 doesn't like the Fiocchi product worries met not. He tried it and didn't like it compared to his existing cartridge.
However, he infers that certain components are "cheap" a derogatory remark in my book which requires substantiation or editing.
Yes I do like and promote Fiocchi cartridges. I shot them many years ago, but the supply dried up.
The profit per slab is minimal and relies on volume to make the effort worthwhile.
I have approached a number of other brands, generally speaking their responses have been disapointing for one reason or another; their loss will be my longterm gain. I do have plans for 2013, watch this space.
webber
webber
Well-known member
Thank you.
I will comment further later, but for now I need to eat and got to work.
webber
The article's findings are similar to CleverSC3, just delivered differently which you'd expect for material intended for publication. You could wax lyrical about centre denseness being a contributory factor towards high scores by the big boys..................or put a less favourable accent on it by highlighting that there may well be the odd poor break or miss even, if not held laser accurate.
CleverSC3 has not made any absolute claims about wad or powder quality only loose comments and even qualified his own unsuitability to pass judgement. He is right about two things, firstly these shells come in the right price/shot grade sector (so deserve to do really well) and secondly the shot size offering is pants. The fact that thousands don't know or care enough isn't the point, it's that thousands of others almost certainly do and Fiocchi could well do a proper job with just a couple of tweaks.
The right overall ESP shell recipe in my opinion is:
good speed without noticeable recoil,
competitive price, presently around the £170-£180 mark,
availability in 2.3mm and 2.2mm ( 2.4 is only really any good for Trap),
half decent presence as in nice packaging and well struck crimps (brass needn't be more than 12mm),
I care not about which plastic wad as long as the patterns are regular,
but the shot must be hard and round .
Consultancy fees are gratefully accepted in shells.
CleverSC3 has not made any absolute claims about wad or powder quality only loose comments and even qualified his own unsuitability to pass judgement. He is right about two things, firstly these shells come in the right price/shot grade sector (so deserve to do really well) and secondly the shot size offering is pants. The fact that thousands don't know or care enough isn't the point, it's that thousands of others almost certainly do and Fiocchi could well do a proper job with just a couple of tweaks.
The right overall ESP shell recipe in my opinion is:
good speed without noticeable recoil,
competitive price, presently around the £170-£180 mark,
availability in 2.3mm and 2.2mm ( 2.4 is only really any good for Trap),
half decent presence as in nice packaging and well struck crimps (brass needn't be more than 12mm),
I care not about which plastic wad as long as the patterns are regular,
but the shot must be hard and round
.Consultancy fees are gratefully accepted in shells.
Will Hewland
Well-known member
I totally agree with Hamsters post above.
Webber, apologies if I seem to be causing offence. I thought I had already implied that I am not an expert; this is a 'user review', not a qualified report.
I should clarify my remark about 'cheap'. What I was saying is that to make a 28g UK 7 pattern very evenly and with modest recoil, you would need expensive / classy wad and powders, making the cartridges typically well over £200 per 1000. What I SUSPECT is used in the Fblu is more modest quality stuff that is typical in the sub £190/1000 cartridge market. To repeat, if you want the 'perfect Fblu' it is called a Clever T3. It costs a LOT more though.
So, to clarify, I think FBlus are very good value for money and my criticism of them is maybe a bit unfair within their price bracket. (I was just hoping for a bargain, especially as the box and shell cases look so classy). I do however think that for very little, or zero money, they could possibly develop the product to be smoother and more even patterned; thus producing a really great shell at a great price. This being a forum, I just hoped to give a modestly experienced bit of product feedback.
Webber, apologies if I seem to be causing offence. I thought I had already implied that I am not an expert; this is a 'user review', not a qualified report.
I should clarify my remark about 'cheap'. What I was saying is that to make a 28g UK 7 pattern very evenly and with modest recoil, you would need expensive / classy wad and powders, making the cartridges typically well over £200 per 1000. What I SUSPECT is used in the Fblu is more modest quality stuff that is typical in the sub £190/1000 cartridge market. To repeat, if you want the 'perfect Fblu' it is called a Clever T3. It costs a LOT more though.
So, to clarify, I think FBlus are very good value for money and my criticism of them is maybe a bit unfair within their price bracket. (I was just hoping for a bargain, especially as the box and shell cases look so classy). I do however think that for very little, or zero money, they could possibly develop the product to be smoother and more even patterned; thus producing a really great shell at a great price. This being a forum, I just hoped to give a modestly experienced bit of product feedback.
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webber
Well-known member
Read the report, already mentioned by another forum member.
http://www.clay-shoo...hoots-a-winner/
Both wad and propelant are mentioned, neither are "cheap"
Try the F Blacks there is a greater selection of shot sizes, but be warned; they're not cheap either.
Now going back to build more shelves ready for another delivery early in the New Year.
webber
http://www.clay-shoo...hoots-a-winner/
Both wad and propelant are mentioned, neither are "cheap"
Try the F Blacks there is a greater selection of shot sizes, but be warned; they're not cheap either.
Now going back to build more shelves ready for another delivery early in the New Year.
webber
