Fiocchi Litespeed 26g

[Suffolk punch]

with both plastic and Fibre  available for litespeed , can't see much of a problem with smoke and the fibre ones seem fairly clean anyway.  Several other claybusters  that I shoot with are trying to get their hands on some, to give them a try !! ---- for under £ 50 per slab they do the job !!

 

[Barrie0]

Shot 100 fibre Litespeeds today after buying a 1000 on friday. Exact same score 91/100 as previous week using hull superfast. Three of the targets were 40 - 60 yards and broke cleanly. Felt the same in recoil as the superfasts to me and I did notice the barrels were quite clean when I got home. Never noticed any smoke/confetti, etc. 

Seems like a decent cartridge.  

 

[El Spavo]

I understand Fiochhi are pitching these as a training cartridge and that makes sense compared to the fBlacks given the following:

• c.£40 per 1000 cheaper
  
• 2g less, size 8, shot
  
• A shorter brass
  
• Available in both plastic and fibre
  
• Slightly harsher recoil, balanced by the lighter load
  

Just spoke to Fiocchi cos I couldn't understand the reasoning for bringing this cartridge out cos if it's effectively the same to shoot as a TT1 then they're just putting those cartridges out of business. Anyway, the bloke said the difference is in the powder (which is why above is in bold as he said same casing, primer, and 8mm brass used): apparently better quality powder burns slower which makes it less thumpy... this is quicker but possible increased recoil is theoretically balanced by the lighter load.

He said it's a response to the market, ie. pyschological £200 ceiling cost, etc., cos they simply can't dick about with the TT1 cos people would complain, so they've just brought out a new model and if it takes TT1 sales then so be it. Also said that cutting open and checking the shot, the size will vary between min & max limits for that size as opposed to their more expensive models which get sorted more thoroughly: all above board, just more chance of variance, but you'd have to be a cheesehead to complain about that at the price they're touting.

Trying a slab tomorrow, be interested to see how they compare to TT1 & Superfast.

 

[El Spavo]

Litespeed... Superfast... exactly the same!

Started with Fiocchi, felt the same, thought I'd run out so switched to Hull, then found another box in my bag. At the end I'd just chucked a load of both in the one pocket and didn't even notice what was going in! Score was the same as usual, and one stand absolutely foxed me early doors so switched to the Superfast purely out of superstition and couldn't hit it with that either so wasn't the cartridge.

Only a tenner cheaper, but i'll likely get the Litespeed from now on and use the extra down the pub.

 

[El Spavo]

(Superfast is 7.5 shot, Litespeed is 8 though, as that will make a difference to some if they believe it makes a difference over distances)

 

[Groovemeister]

Just thought I’d add my  tenpennorth. I bought 2 slabs of these on recommendation from a local gun shop. The 26g is only an issue if you feel that not having 28 grams of shot in the air is putting you at a disadvantage. This is probably more to do with psychology than ballistics. The cartridges are quite quick presumably by having a fast burn powder, but this, in my own view, makes quite a punchy cartridge with a higher perceived recoil which may be quite wearing after a few hundred. The fact that they are also 8s only is a bit of a downer for me as I much prefer 7.5s to give me a bit more chance of a break on very long shots. So  overall from a shooting perspective they are a reasonable cartridge but I feel that they are a tad harsh ( but a lot of European loads are ) and long range breaks are compromised.

Interestingly, when I cleaned my gun it took much longer than normal to get the bores squeaky clean. Not because of Powder or fibre wad residue, the cartridges are relatively clean burning, but lead fouling which took ages to get rid of ( I do love shiny barrels). I suspect that the shot is quite soft and has a low Antimony content which may be where a bit of cash has been saved. Soft shot, especially with fibre wads, will affect patterns but I can’t comment about that on this particular cartridge. Would I buy them again? Probably not, as I think they are too much of a compromise for the few quid saved.

 

[Martinj]

I suspect that they use No. 8 shot to bring the pellet count up, so the number of pellets you lose by going down to 26g you gain by going down half a size.

According to my calculations:

28g No. 7.5 shot = 394 pellets

26g No. 8 shot = 412 pellets

 

[Hamster]

I suspect that they use No. 8 shot to bring the pellet count up, so the number of pellets you lose by going down to 26g you gain by going down half a size.

According to my calculations:

28g No. 7.5 shot = 394 pellets

26g No. 8 shot = 412 pellets

Precisely, hence nothing to do with psychology and everything to do with factual ballistics. 

 

[Lloyd]

I have to say, I find cartridges a touch confusing as to what/when a particular attribute comes into being a serious benefit. 

I’ve probably shot 1,500 cartridges or maybe a bit less so far and by far the majority have been 21g, 7,5 CompX or Express SuperLight, charged out to me at £230/1,000

I’ve broken plenty of targets at 60+ yards on half choke, many edge on. Equally I’ve shot edge on targets hardly more than 10 yards away on 1/4 choke and they all seem to break much the same as the others (assuming I actually hit the darn things to begin with)

So my question is this, do we really need 28g, #9’s or #7’s, with extra antimony, nickel coatings and a wide range of chokes?

I get that these things wouldn’t exist if there wasn’t at least some theories to back them up, but do they really make a difference on typical presentations between 20-70 yards out?

I’m starting to think I could just continue shooting 7,5 21g with 1/2 choke for everything and keep it soft and keep it simple.

So, what am I missing here?

 

[Will Hewland]

I have to say, I find cartridges a touch confusing as to what/when a particular attribute comes into being a serious benefit. 

I’ve probably shot 1,500 cartridges or maybe a bit less so far and by far the majority have been 21g, 7,5 CompX or Express SuperLight, charged out to me at £230/1,000

I’ve broken plenty of targets at 60+ yards on half choke, many edge on. Equally I’ve shot edge on targets hardly more than 10 yards away on 1/4 choke and they all seem to break much the same as the others (assuming I actually hit the darn things to begin with)

So my question is this, do we really need 28g, #9’s or #7’s, with extra antimony, nickel coatings and a wide range of chokes?

I get that these things wouldn’t exist if there wasn’t at least some theories to back them up, but do they really make a difference on typical presentations between 20-70 yards out?

I’m starting to think I could just continue shooting 7,5 21g with 1/2 choke for everything and keep it soft and keep it simple.

So, what am I missing here?

The QUICK answer to you is that you are broadly correct. (However, 70 yard edge on clays are unusual so just make sure you’re really talking as much as 70 yards for the long ones you’ve shot).

All the adjustments to shot size and choke (as with gun fit and good glasses etc) are all about hitting that one or two extra clays during competition, so while it won’t make a real difference to the recreational shooter, it can make the difference between winning and losing to the competition shooter. Rankings and cash are at stake. And of course even with top shots, the sense of confidence that using “the best” set up brings mental advantage in itself. Nobody wins a shoot when they are feeling unsure.

 

[Lloyd]

@Will Hewland Thanks will. 

When it comes to judging distance I’m clueless to be truthful and my information comes from my instructor. Given my estimation skills (lack there of) I can only take him at his word. 

This is something I plan to rectify shortly, by getting a friend to hold out a clay on a stick at a measured distance and I’ll sight along a stick to get an idea of what a clay looks like at a given distance. I don't know  if this will help, but I’ll give it a try. 

Last weekend I was surprised by a sim pair, a fast mini and a standard  they looked identical in size at first glance I was only when it was pointed out to me the fast one was a mini that I could actually see the difference. Weirdly I found the mini easier to hit and actually dropped a couple of the standards.

Back to cartridges, would one recommend shooting the same cartridge in practice as in competition for familiarity and as you say the “mental advantage” or would 21g for practice, 28g for competition be considered a good way to work?

I'm planning on some more tuition with my regular instructor and Ed Solomons before entering competition later his year or perhaps 2021

As always, your advice is much appreciated  

 

[El Spavo]

And of course even with top shots, the sense of confidence that using “the best” set up brings mental advantage in itself.

and with regards cartridges, that sought after confidence can easily set you back an extra £30-50 per thousand on top of 'basic' ones, regardless of whether it actually makes any real difference.

 

[Will Hewland]

@Will Hewland Thanks will. 

When it comes to judging distance I’m clueless to be truthful and my information comes from my instructor. Given my estimation skills (lack there of) I can only take him at his word. 

This is something I plan to rectify shortly, by getting a friend to hold out a clay on a stick at a measured distance and I’ll sight along a stick to get an idea of what a clay looks like at a given distance. I don't know  if this will help, but I’ll give it a try. 

Last weekend I was surprised by a sim pair, a fast mini and a standard  they looked identical in size at first glance I was only when it was pointed out to me the fast one was a mini that I could actually see the difference. Weirdly I found the mini easier to hit and actually dropped a couple of the standards.

Back to cartridges, would one recommend shooting the same cartridge in practice as in competition for familiarity and as you say the “mental advantage” or would 21g for practice, 28g for competition be considered a good way to work?

I'm planning on some more tuition with my regular instructor and Ed Solomons before entering competition later his year or perhaps 2021

As always, your advice is much appreciated  

I would say find one cartridge and use it always. Otherwise you’re potentially distracted when you change. Some shooters won’t give it a thought, but I would. 21g to 28g would be much worse too as felt recoil is way higher. You can get great cartridges for £215 or less. 

and with regards cartridges, that sought after confidence can easily set you back an extra £30-50 per thousand on top of 'basic' ones, regardless of whether it actually makes any real difference.

I don’t use anything very pricey. But I do pattern what I use and know it’s fit for the job. So it’s not just about dearer being the best, but finding what you’re confident with. 

 

[jwpzx9r]

@Will Hewland Thanks will. 

When it comes to judging distance I’m clueless to be truthful and my information comes from my instructor. Given my estimation skills (lack there of) I can only take him at his word. 

This is something I plan to rectify shortly, by getting a friend to hold out a clay on a stick at a measured distance and I’ll sight along a stick to get an idea of what a clay looks like at a given distance. I don't know  if this will help, but I’ll give it a try. 

Last weekend I was surprised by a sim pair, a fast mini and a standard  they looked identical in size at first glance I was only when it was pointed out to me the fast one was a mini that I could actually see the difference. Weirdly I found the mini easier to hit and actually dropped a couple of the standards.

Back to cartridges, would one recommend shooting the same cartridge in practice as in competition for familiarity and as you say the “mental advantage” or would 21g for practice, 28g for competition be considered a good way to work?

I'm planning on some more tuition with my regular instructor and Ed Solomons before entering competition later his year or perhaps 2021

As always, your advice is much appreciated  

I believe in using the cartridges you find work best for you and your gun. I would however say that you are putting yourself at a disadvantage shooting 21g cartridges instead of 28g as you know you only have 75% of the load . This subject has been done to death in the past on here and there have been a few different opinions , mine is that the same person using the two loads will break more targets with the greater mass over the lesser. Some may disagree but to break the target consistently with a 21g load you have to center the target better within the pattern especially at distance when the pattern is much more dispersed. Cartridges can be bought a little bit cheaper down here and as I have become a bit more experienced I find myself using slightly more expensive cartridges than before, I have never used  anything less than 24g though... which even then must put you at a disadvantage over 28g although to prove that point you may have to shoot a lot of targets with each load.

 

[Centrepin]

I’ve probably shot 1,500 cartridges or maybe a bit less so far and by far the majority have been 21g, 7,5 CompX or Express SuperLight, charged out to me at £230/1,000

Not sure where you live. They're the same cartridges that I use. You're paying way over the odds. I'm paying £47 for a slab or £188 per thou for fibre.

I'm not commenting on the rest of what you wrote as Will answered better than I ever could. 

I do notice that a lot of coaches use 21g though. Maybe its price based or that they're in the shoulder a lot.

As for judging distance, do you have a football pitch marked out near you. Put a clay in or on the goal and every 10 yards or so as you walk to the far end. Take a good look from the far goal and you have 100 yards and so on.

Alternatively MY average pace is 120 paces to 100 yards. (That's normal walking not deliberate pacing) If you can work out yours, or even use 120 paces, you can work out a rough distance on a field. Even 30 paces in your garden/car park at work can give you a rough estimate.

Hope that helps a little.

Quick edit: try street lamps, they're normally 30 to 50 metres apart. Find out the distance, tape a clay sized target on a lamp and walk away. Judge it at different paces.

 

[squimp]

I think the Litespeed concept of a 26g, 8 shot load is quite smart.

As a confirmed 21g fibre shooter, I'm tempted to try a few of the 26g fibres for long targets -  if I can stand the recoil. I don't like the description of 'punchy'  that a few have mentioned.

Having said that I broke plenty of 50m clays recently with my 21g fibre (Just Cartridges own brand). I'm led to believe that they are a Gamebore sourced shell. I think they cost me  IRO £180 per 1000 a couple of months ago.

When I miss, its me that is the problem, not the cartridge.....

 

[Rod M]

I think the Litespeed concept of a 26g, 8 shot load is quite smart.

As a confirmed 21g fibre shooter, I'm tempted to try a few of the 26g fibres for long targets -  if I can stand the recoil. I don't like the description of 'punchy'  that a few have mentioned.

Having said that I broke plenty of 50m clays recently with my 21g fibre (Just Cartridges own brand). I'm led to believe that they are a Gamebore sourced shell. I think they cost me  IRO £180 per 1000 a couple of months ago.

When I miss, its me that is the problem, not the cartridge.....

Just to confirm that compared to any 21g load I have shot, the 26g litespeeds are significantly harsher/punchier. As I said right near the top of the thread, recoil was (maybe unsurprisingly given the 2g difference) not dissimilar to a 28g fBlack. My other half, who shoots TT21s, tried one litespeed for a longer target and said 'never again' due to the recoil.

As ever YMMV; it's all dependent on the individual and the gun being used.

I'm a casual shooter and personally find the litespeed gives me similar confidence/results as fBlacks for a significant discount. That allows me to forget about cartridges and enjoy myself whilst saving some cash. If I was to shoot competitively in the future though... I'd probably pay the extra for fBlacks

 

[El Spavo]

For what it's worth, I cannot tell any difference in recoil between these, Hull Superfast 28g, & Fiocchi TT1 28g fibres.

 

[Will Hewland]

For what it's worth, I cannot tell any difference in recoil between these, Hull Superfast 28g, & Fiocchi TT1 28g fibres.

Superfast fibre are punchy, so not surprised. Try a plas wad 21g. You will probably fall over forward when you fire.

 

[El Spavo]

Superfast fibre are punchy, so not surprised. Try a plas wad 21g. You will probably fall over forward when you fire.

You've seen me... helps being my size then apparently cos I don't feel a thing!

Velocity 26g.... now THEY are punchy!!