Coaching

[Hamster]

Nobody, self taught from a standing start including the mental side. Nothing whatsoever against embracing the psychological side as I appreciate it is one of the devils you must conquer but don't kid yourself that everybody needs outside help.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[psych4shooting]

Nobody, self taught from a standing start including the mental side. Nothing whatsoever against embracing the psychological side as I appreciate it is one of the devils you must concur but don't kid yourself that everybody needs outside help.

really???

 

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Nope :smile:

 

[Mike]

I think it's just a modern day method for making money, for decades winners have always been winners, but now there is someone who believes that they can make the average person a winner and it's just not going to happen.

Who would have heard of Gil Ash if You Tube had not been invented? Not me for certain.

Just saying :spiteful:

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Well I would because the Yanks I shoot with internationally know him and he has a great reputation world wide....

This is just new to some of you.....because you are widening your horizons thanks to the Internet :smile:

Most serious competitors have been interested in the mental game for donkeys years. It makes a massive difference to your game.....if you want to win regularly .....true story...!

Just because it is now getting talked about for all levels.....don't be scared......you would do better to embrace it.........IF......you want to win.....

:laugh:

 

[SoR]

Sorry guys but it don't change the fact I personally can't afford it

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Anyone with a computer can access it SOR. There are plenty of detailed papers on-line.....for free. It is entirely up to yourselves to improve yourselves. Plus there are plenty of coaches on here who can talk about it.

Phil touches the sides, Ed gives a bit more and Gil is never afraid to give away free his very detailed information.

Suggest if you cannot afford it ....that you send a private message to them with the questions about improving your game...that you want to ask.

If you do not know the questions.....then you might not be at the level that would benefit from the mental side.

However as I said above there are lots of papers that you can source online if you want to start getting interested for free. Not many are directly for shooting......but the Tennis, Archery, Basketball and Ice Hockey are great as a starter......and similar in focus. It is just up to you now as to whether you can be bothered to look :wink:

 

[Hamster]

really???

Hi Phil,

I'm sensible enough to know that you could come up with a few names of people who have coached   some of those I named, at some point of their lives, for some weeks. But you cannot get away from the FACT that for every Wilson or RF there are a dozen who did make it to the top without mind management coaching or tecchy teachings for that matter. Winners have a lot of things they're born with and conquering their mental devils is one of them, RF would have got there regardless, it was just handy his parents could afford early tuition. 

Who taught the early Olympic winners of the past, and not just in shooting?

 

[** Pending Removal **]

:laugh:

Speechless ......but funny....

:laugh:

 

[maddmatt]

Hi Phil,

I'm sensible enough to know that you could come up with a few names of people who have coached   some of those I named, at some point of their lives, for some weeks. But you cannot get away from the FACT that for every Wilson or RF there are a dozen who did make it to the top without mind management coaching or tecchy teachings for that matter. Winners have a lot of things they're born with and conquering their mental devils is one of them, RF would have got there regardless, it was just handy his parents could afford early tuition. 

Who taught the early Olympic winners of the past, and not just in shooting?

Sorry but this is wide of the mark on a few levels, almost all of those you mentioned had significant coaching from very early ages, at least 3 on your list see their respective psychologists for 2 to 3 weeks before any major they enter. It is complete fallacy to think they made it to the top just by being a natural. The idea that they did it all by themselves is a clay shooting myth, just one of many that propagate shooting grounds and forums :biggrin:

 

[ehb102]

I'm sensible enough to know that you could come up with a few names of people who have coached   some of those I named, at some point of their lives, for some weeks. But you cannot get away from the FACT that for every Wilson or RF there are a dozen who did make it to the top without mind management coaching or tecchy teachings for that matter. Winners have a lot of things they're born with and conquering their mental devils is one of them, RF would have got there regardless, it was just handy his parents could afford early tuition. 

Interesting. What is also interesting to me is how many more people could have achieved excellence if they had helped addressing the psychological areas of their sport. Apologies for thread drift and ramble. 

There are some traits that lend themselves to helping you achieve excellence. Thinking of the sports people I've known they have the ability to concentrate and the ability to disassociate themselves from physical pain are two that come up. The ability to concentrate, to clear your mind and focus, is something that can be severely impaired by your life experiences. Certainly people with lots of traumatic experiences or severe trauma have problems with this, sometimes to the point that I have to work to build up their mental resilience to be able to address memories. Sometimes the traumatic network of minds has many little traumas that add up to distractions and vague uncomfortable feelings. Someone like that will quite often find themselves able to concentrate if X or Y happens. X or Y could be any stress, that depends on the individual  and could be as simple as getting something wrong in a way or place that triggers a traumatic memory. A reactivated traumatic memory doesn't have to be very severe, it's just one that has you reacting to a past memory rather than to the immediate situation. People who do a lot of preemptive work on themselves have great powers of concentration. I wonder how many people have been stopped from being great simply because of one or two very minor incidents in their lives.

The other side of the coin is that whilst people can sometimes disassociate themselves from pain and use that as an advantage, it's also a recognised symptom of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. There are lots of traits that the psychological world has decided are symptoms of mental illness and I don't necessarily agree with that label. I'd rather say it's not an illness unless it causes distress or a problem. In my discipline we treat the person, not the symptom. However, excellence rarely comes out of normality. What can be achieved with psychological work is giving people the opportunity to have more or be happier with what they have. Quite often a very motivated person will give up a lot in order to pursue their goal. That's fine if your goal is what you really want, like, and some people are simply driven by love of what they do, but if your find that once your goal has been reached you are still feeling empty or you are immediately on to the next goal and you never enjoy your success, or even the journey to get there, you are going to be spending a lot of time in pursuit of happiness that you barely experience. Successful entrepreneurs are often like this. The human brain is absolutely wonderful about letting us think we're being rational and logical when we make our decisions when actually it is working incredibly hard to pull off contortions to protect us from exposure to anything that might retrigger our traumatic experiences. Of course part of an unwillingness to seek assistance could be based in 'traumatic' memories. At this point we wait until something else happens that means the pain of not changing is greater than the fear of addressing the problems.

I don't think that conquering your mental devils without help is some kind of badge of honour or rite of passage, any more than learning to shoot without ever taking coaching somehow adds value to your ability. That viewpoint may be very dependent on my demographics, but if you can shoot a 100 straight you can shoot a 100 straight no matter how you got there. The important thing I think is that nothing should prevent you from choosing to do anything but your conscious choice not to. If I choose not to shoot a registered competition because it's too hard for me and it's no fun missing more than half of everything that's fine, I know I can go when I have increased in ability and it will be fun. If I choose not to shoot a registered competition because I had a traumatic experience on my first one and the feeling of "I shouldn't be here, I'm not good enough" is being reactivated every time I see the words "registered competition" then I'm being controlled by my traumatic experience. My mind might come up with all kinds of justifications - it's expensive, it's the wrong time, I should do something else, it's self indulgent etc - but the truth is that my brain is trying to protect me from reactivating that trauma. 

On a lighter note, a lot of women have issues with trying to beat other people because they are brought up to be collaborative. With the women I shoot with it's about being the best you can for yourself, and if you add it up at the end and you're better than everyone else, great! If not, you did your best, great! With them men I shoot with it's not enough to succeed, others must fail. I personally found I wasn't competitive until I was put into the situation where the other person didn't want to share the glory (and I said they could have the rosette too!) but made me leave my tea and cake and go back out into the cold to shoot off. At that point I felt that they had forced a win-lose situation and I was morally allowed to see that it was them not me who lost. Cultural conditioning is very powerful and it amuses me that no matter how much work I have done there are still always times that my social programming tries to run me. I think really I'm not competitive until I have a sniff of winning!

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Enjoyment is the key....if you do not enjoy it...best to go fishing....then come back refreshed.

 

[Hamster]

Sorry but this is wide of the mark on a few levels, almost all of those you mentioned had significant coaching from very early ages, at least 3 on your list see their respective psychologists for 2 to 3 weeks before any major they enter. It is complete fallacy to think they made it to the top just by being a natural. The idea that they did it all by themselves is a clay shooting myth, just one of many that propagate shooting grounds and forums :biggrin:

Name them. I have no trouble accepting that some very successful shooters made it because of mental tuition, early shooting lessons do not count, this post is about mental skills. I expect even Digweed must have had the odd you're behind it lad lesson from those who accompanied him  , hell Winser owes me on that front.

There are people alive today who won big before anyone had even thought of mental voodoo. The trouble starts when you try and pigeon hole success into a series of must haves and can't do withouts..........nonsense. 

I'd take 50k shells a year and the time and money to travel and learn to shoot AND win over 10k shells with four hours of trance techniques with absolutely anyone you like.

 

[Mike]

Sorry but this is wide of the mark on a few levels, almost all of those you mentioned had significant coaching from very early ages, at least 3 on your list see their respective psychologists for 2 to 3 weeks before any major they enter. It is complete fallacy to think they made it to the top just by being a natural. The idea that they did it all by themselves is a clay shooting myth, just one of many that propagate shooting grounds and forums :biggrin:

I find your username quite apt and how long have you been shooting without a psychologist :nyam:

 

[SIMON-B]

This thread has now travelled so far from my original post it's in another world. From what i have gleaned from this conversation is that if you think a certain coach /technique/method appeals to you and you can afford it and make good the cost to benefit equation to your self personally, then go for it. I shall personally not decide until i have at least tried things for myself. Looking forward to my coaching/lesson/spiritul guru guidance/having a laugh with Ed Solomons.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Trance techniques... :laugh:

That shows a full knowledge of the subject.

:laugh:

 

[Hamster]

You forgot voodoo.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

:wink: of course.....the best and most effective stuff.

Congratulations on understanding the subject :laugh:

 

[Hamster]

Well you know, why learn to shoot when you can think them to smoke. :sword:   :lol:   :lol: