Clever Mirage T3 28g No8

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Tom cut the top off the shell I'd given him, poured out this dull, soft shot full of tear drop shaped pellets into my hand. "There you go, sh*te shot, (pulls out thewad) sh*te wad, they don't open up, gives you a really dense center and loose outer pattern, you'll not be wanting that for sporting are you? Cheap powder
I always enjoy reading cartridge reviews and views and it's great that you took the time to write your post but one or two things need gentle reminding. In my time I too have opened up almost every single shell I ever fired but will say that shinyness of the lead is not an indicator of it's hardness or quality. In fact very often you'll find super shiny samples inside some very budget loads; the Hull Sovereigns for example surprised me with their dull looking shot but they are as we know a super cartridge if a little thumpy.

Also I'm not sure how Tom so quickly and accurately proved to you the softness of these poor shells that you were using. Even today there is no standard practical way of measuring hardness and it does of course vary from shot size to shot size, very hard COULD mean high contents of antimony which as you yourself have correctly surmised before, leads to a decrease in individual shots specific weight which isn't necessarily desirable unless other factors can be balanced to compensate such as slight increase in size, speed or pattern density via choking up.

I will agree that tear drop shape or even slightly mis shaped shot is very bad news though but again I have to say I can't recall the last time I came across any.

Getting fixated on a single make may be good for our confidence but is ultimately a futile excercise as nobody goes out to make a bad shell, they all perform well enough within their price remit. The trick is to find one that suits your speed/recoil needs and which is available locally and easily. The chances are amost any cartridge you and I care to mention including the sh*te one, someone at some point will have scored big and won big with them.

 
I always enjoy reading cartridge reviews and views and it's great that you took the time to write your post but one or two things need gentle reminding. In my time I too have opened up almost every single shell I ever fired...

I'm not sure how Tom so quickly and accurately proved to you the softness of these poor shells that you were using.

I will agree that tear drop shape or even slightly mis shaped shot is very bad news...

The trick is to find one that suits your speed/recoil needs and which is available locally and easily.
Hammy, 'hardness' was 'proven' through the most basic and simple crush test you could imagine...Tom used his leatherman to cut the shell open, we crushed a few with it, they flattened to fat saucer shapes about 50% of their original size, we then took some shot from T1's, 3% antimony, did the same, they were much tougher to crush and stayed about 80% of their original 'thickness' we did the same with T3 Grand Italias, you could not squash them to less than around 90% without feeling like the leatherman was going to break!!! Basic, un scientific I know, but there you are...

p.s. When T4 Pro Extra Black Eagles came out last year with the 'carbon/quartz' treated shot, Tom cut one open before they were even fired, 95+% shape retention with the same pliers. Designed to break the super hard Eco clays in Italy. The shot is harder and denser, the individual pellets are heiver, I.e. 28g of UK 7's have a lower pellet count than 28g of 7's either 3% antimony or 5% antimony = more retained energy down range per individual pellet. Handy for second barrel shots at OT which they were designed for, equaly handy for long edge on targets at FITASC or sporting. When you see the breaks at distance they certainly inspire confidence!!!

 
Went through 250 in 2 day's with my new evo, loved them, thanks for the feedback guys

 
If you can't break it with a T2 8 (UK 7.5) then seek advice re your technique, because THAT is the issue..

 
Hammy,

You can get them over here.

Contact North Ayrshire Shooting Ground, Tom Young.

Also I believe that you will soon be able to get them in the Midlands & South very soon.

I know a man who can.

He will let you know when he is ready.
£188 per thousand for T2's?  If I can get a few thousand of these in the midlands then thats me done.  Great price and if Ian Wylye says they are good, then I am inclined to believe him!!

Where in the midlands can I get them from and when?

 
Just used lever T2 for the first time today one word ... Brilliant ! Shot the first three rounds using my usual 24g cartridge and then used the Clever's T2 28g for the first time missed the first three targets over the top, so I was told, and shot the next 22 on the first barrel. No recoil just a nice smooth shot... shooting ABT not sporting, wanted to go another round but the rest of the guys wanted to get home so finished 20,21,21 and 22 which for me is good!

edit... £188 for a thousand rip off £163/1000 delivered 48hrs courier :)

 
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Just used lever T2 for the first time today one word ... Brilliant ! Shot the first three rounds using my usual 24g cartridge and then used the Clever's T2 28g for the first time missed the first three targets over the top, so I was told, and shot the next 22 on the first barrel. No recoil just a nice smooth shot... shooting ABT not sporting, wanted to go another round but the rest of the guys wanted to get home so finished 20,21,21 and 22 which for me is good!

edit... £188 for a thousand rip off £163/1000 delivered 48hrs courier :)
Does your courier deliver to. Norfolk if so I will have a 1000.

 
No But if you remember back to the day when you went to France for the day to stock up on cheap wine... why not combine the two if you have a friend in the north of France  have the carts sent to them pick them up ...say ten thousand, € 10 per thousand discount, stock up on the fine wines and spirits and head home the carts are saving you £350 and you will save on wine and spirits, cigs etc anybody living in Kent its a no brainer you only need a French address to send them to and of course someone to buy them ! Maybe a bit more complicated than I thought !

 
Aye, very good...we don't all live in F*cking France!!!
No need to be so touchy James just basking my new found good fortune :) Seriously though you have no idea how much difference this will make to my shooting I now can buy good cartridges at reasonable prices... you have always been able to at your shooting ground. I have just been out today and the guys at my ground are just running back home to go on the internet to get some sent to them it is not easy getting decent cartridges out in the sticks here in France. Yes we can get cartridges cheaply but top brands such as Fiocchi, Clever and the like are not easily obtainable.
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James just to be a bit more bloody minded about it though why are cartridges made in Italy approx. £25 per thousand more in the UK than they are in France? It cannot not cost £25 per thousand more to transport them to the UK. Are Clever simply pitching them in at the same price as a British made cartridge?

 
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What's the difference between the T3's and T2's?

 
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Italian manufacturers tend to have a gradient scale for the strength of their cartridges and prices follow suit. Top of range are 4 down to 1 [budget] as in RC4, T4, down to RC2, TT2, Top One etc. £260/1000 at the top end £160 at the bottom end. Take your pick. There are game cartridges at T5, JK6 but these are heavyweight.

 
Just more expensive ingredients! 5% antimony shot versus 3% etc. the T3 is slightly smoother to shoot and slightly more even patterning.
Just to add to what Clever said, I find the T3's to hold the pattern tighter than T1's or T2's especially at distance, not a center dence pattern, a very even pattern.

 
Look guys when you are discussing Clever and RC you are talking about quality so we really do not need to discuss them, we just need to buy them and shoot them.

Now it's a different matter when we are discussing Black's, we are having trouble with blacks in the Birmingham area, although some shooters do like them.  :haha:   :haha:   :haha:

P.S. We don't have much trouble with Express Supreme's and some ViP's and they are Blacks as well.

 
Vip are black !

As in colour or as in same as Fiocchi ?

 
ips,

Black cases sometimes depending on which type. FBlacks very popular and good stockists in the Midlands, but they have had their issues.

 
Yes they have however i have never experienced a miss fire. Last few batches have been a bit thumpy though.

 
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