British 21gms. Sporting Championship

[Evo]

and here is poor old middle class me thinking of starting to shoot the comps,,,,, well my mind has been made up now,,,think i,ll stick to dominoes in the club as i will need to earn double my wages to enter a comp at these rates because i have never shot in one and would only prob finish last,,,,,do i get a prize for being last,,a 1000 carts off hull would sufice .

 

[wylye]

Jack Pyke paid out£750 HG (i think) £300 in class down to 8th with a goody bag worth £40 for a £46 entry, I got £45 for jnt 6th probably about the 3rd place payoff here. Westfield pay out £150 in classes for a fiver in the pot too! If Hull are sponsoring this its another case of cartridge manufactures taking the P again.

Fuz you are missing the point. Where did the prize fund come from at this shoot? It didn't come from the entry fee thats for sure.Sponsorship from a large company is a very tax-efficient way of advertising your products at an event that was sure to attract big entries. This shoot has to stand alone and (hopefully) leave a profit at the end of the day. How many entries will there be? Go on, make a stab at it because I'm really not sure.. Then when you have that number stick your neck out and think about putting up about £1500 of prize money and then keep your fingers crossed.

As for the nett return to the ground, it will be exactly the same as every other shoot we put on throughout the year. I think this shoot will be enjoyed by the majority of open-minded shooters looking for something different and a change from from the week in week out 100 Reg.

 

[Fuzrat]

Ian, Fair enough, I was assuming that as it was Hull 21g shells to be used a major cartridge supplier was sponsoring this event. Is this not the case??? Yes a large company in Jack Pyke sponsor an event that was sure to attract big entries this year, was that the case in its inaugural year? of course not, they took a punt and were willing to take a loss and hoping for it to grow into the attractive event it is now

As for numbers at £60 a punt not many I would say. I also mentioned Westfield, £37 comp, fiver in the pot and £150 in classes. This shoot is a tenner in the pot and £100 in classes :huh: Even my dodgy maths can work out that a fiver in to win £150 is better than a tenner in for £100.

I agree with others that this would be an entertaining event, all on a level playing field as far as ammo goes. But quite honestly its an expensive experiment just to prove or disprove wether 21g can do the business. Perhaps a birds only option? and only pay cash on entries as a normal reg?

 

[tiptop]

Normal registered comp shoot is £35 entry (including cash for prize pot)+100 carts @ £17 average=£52 !!!! £8 for the extra box of carts???

 

[DoubleBarrelledDon]

I hate to be awkward but......how much do bricks and cement cost at trade price? how much does a garage pay for a set of brake pads and what do they charge you? what mark up does a restaurant put on food? every business has to run at a profit or its not worth doing, those that dont wont be around for long.... and there are plenty of Range Rovers, big mercs and beemers in car parks at shoots that show that many of those who shoot have a clear understanding of what it takes to make a good profit in their own businesses...

 

[wylye]

Normal registered comp shoot is £35 entry (including cash for prize pot)+100 carts @ £17 average=£52 !!!! £8 for the extra box of carts???

Well its £37/38 usually and there are 125 cartridges being talked about here so perhaps you missed some of the earlier posts?

 

[Mr Potter]

Well its £37/38 usually and there are 125 cartridges being talked about here so perhaps you missed some of the earlier posts?

Well how can a ground like Catton Hall put on a registered 100 bird shoot over 14 stands with £125 H/G and ? cash in the classes for the princely sum of £30? They hold this every month of the year + about 3 or 4 bank holiday shoots. Now I'm not in business (one of those unfortunate PAYE slaves) but if they were not making a profit even I could work out that they'd soon stop doing them.

They are also open for practice on a Wednesday, credit card type Promatic claymate system in operation and a sliding scale of charges, more you shoot cheaper it is and 100 costs £21. Well they automatically credit 10% "no bird" allowance and they have very few no birds, so in effect you're getting 110 for your money. On the rare occasions I can sneak out on a Wednesday I generally have 165 (150 + 10%) for £31, that works out at less than £19 per 100.

For those of you who haven't visited Catton it's not some scruffy straw baler, it's got a huge log cabin clubhouse that's as good as any (think Hodnet but bigger but no gunshop) and the grounds are kept immaculate by the staff.

I'm not posting this to promote Catton Hall just to point out that top quality grounds can and do offer value for money, at £60 I can't see that value even if it included 125 of the dearest 28g cartridges on the market.

Mr Potter

 

[Emmsy]

I hate to be awkward but......how much do bricks and cement cost at trade price? how much does a garage pay for a set of brake pads and what do they charge you? what mark up does a restaurant put on food? every business has to run at a profit or its not worth doing, those that dont wont be around for long.... and there are plenty of Range Rovers, big mercs and beemers in car parks at shoots that show that many of those who shoot have a clear understanding of what it takes to make a good profit in their own businesses...

i think the point here is that the shoot in question doesnt seem to be that great a value, and the only thing making it any different is the 21gm rule. looking at the posts above for instance, folk can go and do a £35 reg comp with £15 of shells and get similar payout, what incentive is there to pay the extra £10? would you get your car serviced at Bentley because they charge more than a Ford garage would?

i think this is why fitasc isnt more popular, people struggle to see why its £20 a 100 more expensive to shoot than ESP.

BTW, I have a trade account at B+Q, and i have a vauxhall trade account for my car bits, labour i do myself, oh and i drive a crappy old astra. we arnt all rolling around in money.

 

[Fuzrat]

Don, the point you make is valid, Shooting grounds have to turn a profit but its clear from other grounds that they can offer the same payouts for less in the pot than this 21g shoot and obviously make a profit else they wouldnt still be going. £60 is Fitasc money just for the "privilege" of shooting 21g shells.

If this is a Hull backed promo to get us to shoot their 21 grammers surely they would be wanting to donate a pallet or so of shells for the promotion? and even a hundred or so baseball caps to sweeten the deal for those that havent got a hope in hell of picking up a draw. In these days of austerity people will spend big money on big shoots but want some value back for their hard earned, especially if a shell manufacturer is involved.

 

[jim french]

£50 all in with half price shells every one wins. the ground gets the shooters the shooters get to try the shells and hull gets a mass promotion and cover cocts. simple and you would need a bigger car park plus extra bacon :smile:

 

[optima]

How much for under 16s with paying adult??

 

[jasper]

"I hate to be awkward but......how much do bricks and cement cost at trade price? how much does a garage pay for a set of brake pads and what do they charge you? what mark up does a restaurant put on food? every business has to run at a profit or its not worth doing, those that dont wont be around for long.... and there are plenty of Range Rovers, big mercs and beemers in car parks at shoots ."

surely thats the point. only persons with 40k?+ motors can afford to play these days. ? too many chiefs not enough paye slaves???

same faces at every shoot. no one from the club shooting world looks to progress to reg shoots and beyond?

pay rise ? whats that . 4yrs and waiting.........

 

[Mr Potter]

surely thats the point. only persons with 40k?+ motors can afford to play these days. ? too many chiefs not enough paye slaves???

same faces at every shoot. no one from the club shooting world looks to progress to reg shoots and beyond?

pay rise ? whats that . 4yrs and waiting.........

Spot on Jasper and, imho, those "chiefs" with the 40k+ cars only get to to be chiefs by getting best value for money so we are back to the thrust of most of the posters on this thread, at £60 entry where is the value for money.

This is all pretty academic for me as the distance makes my chances of turning up for this particular event about the same as my winning a rollover euromillions lottery jackpot. That being said, I wonder if I lived on the doorstep whether I would go. 21g cartridges, are to most, the preserve of those who really suffer badly from recoil who don't want to shoot a semi auto. For those on a budget the price difference is marginal at best compared to budget 28g loads, the techies will tell you about faster target acquisition for the second bird but that only really applies to trap shooters surely, at Sporting I often drop the gun out of my shoulder & remount for the 2nd bird so muzzle flip isn't an issue. However smooth or comfortable they maybe to shoot there are on average 100 fewer pellets in a 21g (shot size 7.5) load than a 28g. I just know that with my luck it would be one or two of those missing pellets that would have done the business!!

So I don't need to shoot a competition to know I'm not going to change to a 21g load, especially a competition that is disproportionately expensive to enter!

That being said most of the decisions us clay busters make on where to shoot are not rational, I'm off to shoot the Dutch FITASC championship in a few weeks with an entry fee of 150 euros for 200 birds and compulsory steel shot with as much chance of winning as the above mentioned euromillions rollover jackpot. So if the this 21g shoot was local and £50 entry I'd probably be there.

Mr Potter

 

[jasper]

think that shooters are being more selective. your trip to holland will most likely be at the expense :yell: of something else. and following the recent reports on that shoot you will be getting an excellent shoot which is good value.

enjoy

jasper

 

[Hamster]

Good post Mr. Potter

The distance alone makes this a no goer for me but I eagerly await the outcome and general opinion of people who'll attend.

 

[jasper]

by the way i do not have a downer on the idea of the 21 grm shoot , however i fail to see how supplying hulls 21grm shells will stop the cheating barstewards from using anything thing else they want when out on the course. run it like a reg . £35 , 5 in the comp pot .bring your own shells. payout in cpsa classes as per .

jasper

 

[wylye]

by the way i do not have a downer on the idea of the 21 grm shoot , however i fail to see how supplying hulls 21grm shells will stop the cheating barstewards from using anything thing else they want when out on the course. run it like a reg . £35 , 5 in the comp pot .bring your own shells. payout in cpsa classes as per .

jasper

Thanks for your contribution but I have to disagree with you about the supply of cartridges for the competition. I think a free for all would result in a great deal of bad feeling and accusations of cheating. Putting the cartridges on the stands would cure the problem though wouldn't it? Then of course we could supply only 100 and not 125 with a corresponding reduction in the entry price.

 

[jasper]

as would asking the refs to check catridges in use . which they should/could be doing anyhow . 32grm loads in evidence at 28grm rule shoots all over the country.????????

wylye i wish you luck with it however it runs and may even have a day out for it.( long way for me mind)

jasper

 

[EdSolomons]

May well pop down for this if all gets ironed out and I'm free. Will keep an eye on it!

 

[Gnasher]

I think this will be interesting to shoot. Ive never shot a competition where everyone had to shoot the same cartridges. You'll be able to see in the bins if shooters are cheating/using something else.

I shot 21g for 18 months and the plastic wad ones will break anything. Fibre 21g aren't so good for the more distance target. £60 is a bit steep....£52 seems more appropriate....