Depends how you interpret what you have done. To my way of thinking if what you have done changes the position of the gun on your body when mounted then the cast has effectively been changed because when it is on your shoulder the previous measurements, with respect to you the shooter, have changed. We have already debated what happens when you raise the height of the comb with respect to how a gun shoots in terms of POI /POA using an example of a gun held in a vice to demonstrate that the gun points/ shoots in exactly the same place regardless of what you do with the comb... but the moment you put the gun in the Hands of the shooter the whole thing changes and the comb height does indeed seem to make the change have an effect.
Adjustable comb...Is it worth it?
- Thread starter Buster41
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If the cast is wrong you can still align the eye but the pad will not sit properly in the shoulder pocket. An adjustable comb might compensate a for a few mm here and there but mostly it's better to get the cast fixed properly.
Adam17
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tiptop
Well-known member
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- Feb 3, 2012
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You cannot physically change the actual cast on a stock just by moving the comb, the stock needs to be bent. Agreed you can move the comb to see a better picture, align the eye, up/down, side to side, in effect moving your head position relative to the barrel. But we will have to agree to disagree that you cannot physically move the stock with out it being bent. Otherwise why are all shotguns not made straight stocked and you adjust it to fit your own shape, or left right handed? It doesn't happen because the stock has to be bent.
You may think you have changed the position on your body, I would like to think it has changed my head position on the stock. Something else we will have to agree to disagree on.
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
Cast does not alter the gun butt/ body point of contact. What it does is move the face in relation to the gun and that is ALL it is intended to do. Nothing more or less. An adjustable comb does exactly the same thing.
With an anatomical adjustable stock it is possible to put massive amounts of butt plate offset into the gun and that is NOT cast. That will not necessarily align the eye/barrel unless the comb is set to allow that relationship to exist. Exactly what try guns did. Exactly what traditional bending of the stock accomplished and was called "cast' which gave some indication of the COMB offset built into the stock. I'm puzzled as to why those two adjustments have to be considered as one when in simple fact they are not.
Perhaps some posters fail to realize the solutions arrived at by traditional stock/gun makers who responded with low tech and simple by just bending the stock - - and of course the persistence of those solutions as they are the least expensive to implement.
With an anatomical adjustable stock it is possible to put massive amounts of butt plate offset into the gun and that is NOT cast. That will not necessarily align the eye/barrel unless the comb is set to allow that relationship to exist. Exactly what try guns did. Exactly what traditional bending of the stock accomplished and was called "cast' which gave some indication of the COMB offset built into the stock. I'm puzzled as to why those two adjustments have to be considered as one when in simple fact they are not.
Perhaps some posters fail to realize the solutions arrived at by traditional stock/gun makers who responded with low tech and simple by just bending the stock - - and of course the persistence of those solutions as they are the least expensive to implement.
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So - does the stock wag the barrels or the barrels wag the stock??? I was always under the impression that having cast on/off (ie- bending the stock) just moved the barrels over the 'shooting eye' to align the rib with that eye. The 'face' surely cannot be in a different plane/position on the stock, unless the actual comb is moved in relation to the heel/butt plate position. An adjustable comb however, does have that facility to move the face in relation to the heel/butt plate, usually up,down,left and right. Oooh crikey, time for bed
The shoulder pocket and the eye are not in the same vertical plane. Cast simply allows the gun to have the rib in one plane and the pad in another. Cast adjustment such as bending is used because people come in all sizes. If the cast is increased by a significant amount for someone with say, very wide shoulders, the eye or head position relative to the rib could be compromised and it may be necessary to alter the comb or fit an adjustable to overcome this.
Adjustable combs are different because they exist to compensate for variations in both facial and neck dimensions as well as the shooter's preference for line of sight, either level along or above the rib. If the comb is raised to lift the line of sight it's typical that the head will become more upright and simple mechanics tells us that this can cause the eye to move sideways by a few mm. An adjustable comb addresses this by having horizontal movement to reposition the line of sight.
Despite the folks out there on forums like ShotgunWorld, trying blind us with science, stock fit theory is pretty simple stuff.
Adjustable combs are different because they exist to compensate for variations in both facial and neck dimensions as well as the shooter's preference for line of sight, either level along or above the rib. If the comb is raised to lift the line of sight it's typical that the head will become more upright and simple mechanics tells us that this can cause the eye to move sideways by a few mm. An adjustable comb addresses this by having horizontal movement to reposition the line of sight.
Despite the folks out there on forums like ShotgunWorld, trying blind us with science, stock fit theory is pretty simple stuff.
MartynB
Well-known member
Whoops didn’t get point in . What I was going to say is that having a stock correctly bent is not necessarily the simplest or cheapest method . In many cases it is simply the best method if you don’t want a nicely stocked piece ( game gun for example) , ending up looking like a surgical attachment.
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Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
I'll try one more time
Traditional "cast" incorporates two fitting adjustments by building in those dimensions in (or maybe later bending) the stock. First the regular measurement for "cast" at the heel offsets the comb to bring the eye to the center of the gun. The "cast" at the toe is added to accommodate the conformation of the shooter's body where the butt rests. Comb height for vertical POI adjustment is of course a separate dimension - that would be drop at the heel. Try-stocks did all of those things just like an anatomical stock. It is perfectly feasible, tho I've not seen one, to have a zero offset at the heel and not move the line of sight at all and an offset at the toe to fit the butt to the shooter's body and be devoid of "cast".
Anatomical stocks (like try-stocks) are superior in regard to the ability to offset the entire gun by offsetting the butt plate horizontally, accommodate the shooter's mount by twisting the butt plate, and offsetting the comb to align the eye - all as separate functions. This is not to say that a carved solid wood stock could not incorporate those things as well but it would be as strange looking as the anatomical stocks are. The traditional stock configuration comes pretty close without looking obviously strange.
Traditional "cast" incorporates two fitting adjustments by building in those dimensions in (or maybe later bending) the stock. First the regular measurement for "cast" at the heel offsets the comb to bring the eye to the center of the gun. The "cast" at the toe is added to accommodate the conformation of the shooter's body where the butt rests. Comb height for vertical POI adjustment is of course a separate dimension - that would be drop at the heel. Try-stocks did all of those things just like an anatomical stock. It is perfectly feasible, tho I've not seen one, to have a zero offset at the heel and not move the line of sight at all and an offset at the toe to fit the butt to the shooter's body and be devoid of "cast".
Anatomical stocks (like try-stocks) are superior in regard to the ability to offset the entire gun by offsetting the butt plate horizontally, accommodate the shooter's mount by twisting the butt plate, and offsetting the comb to align the eye - all as separate functions. This is not to say that a carved solid wood stock could not incorporate those things as well but it would be as strange looking as the anatomical stocks are. The traditional stock configuration comes pretty close without looking obviously strange.
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G
Guest
Guest
surely cast of(or on) on an adjustable stock can only be considered cast it the but plate is moved over to match, otherwise you have to crank your head/neck over to align your eye with the rib.
If you buy a gun like a Perazzi the factory stock measurements will include 2 cast measurements. Those will measure the cast at the heel (top) of the BUTT PLATE and the toe (bottom) of the butt plate. Both relate to the amount of offset from the RIB line of the barrels.
They have little relation to the cast at FACE ie where you put your head on the stock. That will depend on the shape of the stock and the comb.
Where your EYE then ends up in relation to the RIB (with that specific comb profile) is a function of the shape of your head and how you mount the gun (arms, shoulder, neck, chest profile etc).
If you then fit an adjustable comb to the same gun you will be able to alter the drop and cast at FACE. That adjustable comb will have no effect on the drop at heel, cast at heel/toe or the pitch of the gun.
IF (and it might be a big if) the measurements at the shoulder end of the stock are okay for you; then an added adjustable comb might well help you find the sight picture that you are looking for....
One caveat:
Nobody has mentioned the balance issues related to fitting an adjustable comb....Personally I struggle to shoot with stock heavy guns and the solution that involves adding more (more) weight to the other end of the gun doesn't appeal to me either. There is the option of buying a gun with a factory fitted adjustable comb - that will hopefully have been sensibly balanced....
Cosmicblue
Well-known member
I came across a YouTube video earlier in the year that suggested using a drinking straw attached to the top rib with Blutac to test gun fit. If you can mount the gun consistently and see straight down the straw to the bead then the gun fit is pretty close
So trundled off to McDonalds and 'borrowed' a straw - they are fairly large bore things - surprise, surprise - it works.
So trundled off to McDonalds and 'borrowed' a straw - they are fairly large bore things - surprise, surprise - it works.
westley
Well-known member
MartynB
Well-known member
For what it’s worth . Yesterday I shot my newly fitted / choked MK60 20 game gun for the first time . The stock has had 1/4 cast off added, and the comb at face raised . I shot at a variety of driven targets . Everything was shot gun down . The gun just came to face , it was pointing where I was looking . I’d started with skeet choke and broke everything , changed to my favourite 3/8 and got some lovely breaks with 24gm Eley CT .
Will Hewland
Well-known member
Again FWIW, I’m so pleased with my stock now, with a better shaped comb. The adj element has allowed me to move it across for a bit more cast off (sorry if the purists think it isn’t REAL cast off..). The alignment for the rib is excellent and I judged that by swinging to the end of all movements and rechecking where my eye is. Anyway, I’m in a more comfortable and repeatable situation now and any subtle angle or “straight at” targets are definitely better, the breaks being almost as if I’m using more choke.
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Jonny English
Well-known member
I've put an adjustable stock on my dt11 these last few months and it has been a brilliant investment. Have now got the gun feeling like an extension of my body. I wouldn't buy another gun without one now.
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
I have no idea what sort of hardware is used where you guys are but what is here shows an insignificant change in weight. FWIW the dif between Perazzi adjustos and fixed stocks that I have or had is more likely the dif in the wood than the hardware. Also FWIW the TSK and Egosigns in my house have all needed several oz added to make the weight of a factory fixed stock.
El Spavo
Well-known member
Hear about different barrels being swapped around on the same model for changes in total length, is this the same with stocks, can you swap to an adjustable if you happen to find the same model stock knocking about somewhere? Theoretically, I couldn't see why not, but I'm no expert.
Will Hewland
Well-known member
Yes usually. Certainly on most modern guns. The alternative is to get an adjustable comb conversion to the original stock as I just did
