Clever Mirage T3 28g No8
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Shaun Hopkins
Well-known member
Yet to have a single misfire with any fioochi unlike the last batch of ely superbs which were running at a rate of about 2/100 misfires however having dabbled with every cartridge on the market i have to say at this moment in time the Fblacks are just perfect through my setup and at sub £200 per 1000 take some beating. :spiteful:
EVERY...how many of the Clever Mirage range have you try'ed? T1 Supertargets? T2's T2 fibre or T2 compak? T3 Grand Italia's? T4 Pro Extra's, B'ol D'or, Black Eagle Evolutions or RVS?
Edit...instead of "have you tried", that should have been, now you have tried what did you think of...(the Clever range)
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Shaun Hopkins
Well-known member
Oh dear forgot about you! why the hell would i shoot all those differant shells it was more rhetorical meaning cartridges designed for sporting in plastic 7 1/2 and yes tried most over the years BUT Fblacks pattern best through my gun by a mile. P.s have you tried spell check!EVERY...how many of the Clever Mirage range have you try'ed? T1 Supertargets? T2's T2 fibre or T2 compak? T3 Grand Italia's? T4 Pro Extra's, B'ol D'or, Black Eagle Evolutions or RVS?
Edit...instead of "have you try'ed" that should have been, now you have try'ed...what did you think of...(the Clever range)
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So that's a NO then...you have rhetorically not shot 'every' cartridge out there!!!
Saying fblacks pattern best by a mile without having shot the Clever or RC range is like saying a Fiat panda is the best car to drive round a race track without having ever driven a Ferrari or Lambourgini...rhetorically!!!
Will Hewland
Well-known member
I found patterning through my gun that Fiocchi FBlack have an irregular pattern with an overly dense centre. (This is why shooters often feel they are good,because you will get some smoking kills if on centre).
Clever T3 have a very even and regular pattern with a less dense centre. So, you won't get some amazing balls of dust (if you are on dead centre) at 25+ yards, but very good all-round performance.
Clever T3 have a very even and regular pattern with a less dense centre. So, you won't get some amazing balls of dust (if you are on dead centre) at 25+ yards, but very good all-round performance.
Seeing as shotgun barrels are basically a perfectly round tube and that for clay shooting the shot is generally shielded within a plastic cup, then it's reasonable to expect the characteristics intended by the manufacturer to be fairly repeatable by a broad range of users.
In other words I think if FBlack are centre dense through one gun then they're probably not going to throw much different through other peoples guns ?! Obviously choke (not to mention air density if you're shooting a comp at altitude ) will make a difference but have to agree with Will that smokes tend to make us think we're onto something special when in fact there may be room for a slight trade off with evenness.
In other words I think if FBlack are centre dense through one gun then they're probably not going to throw much different through other peoples guns ?! Obviously choke (not to mention air density if you're shooting a comp at altitude
) will make a difference but have to agree with Will that smokes tend to make us think we're onto something special when in fact there may be room for a slight trade off with evenness.
Shaun Hopkins
Well-known member
So how many clays do you feel i miss because of cartridge choiceSeeing as shotgun barrels are basically a perfectly round tube and that for clay shooting the shot is generally shielded within a plastic cup, then it's reasonable to expect the characteristics intended by the manufacturer to be fairly repeatable by a broad range of users.
In other words I think if FBlack are centre dense through one gun then they're probably not going to throw much different through other peoples guns ?! Obviously choke (not to mention air density if you're shooting a comp at altitude
rankster: answer wisely so as not to lose all credibility in my eyes...
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Shaun Hopkins
Well-known member
Don't try to ridicule me James .So that's a NO then...you have rhetorically not shot 'every' cartridge out there!!!
Saying fblacks pattern best by a mile without having shot the Clever or RC range is like saying a Fiat panda is the best car to drive round a race track without having ever driven a Ferrari or Lambourgini...rhetorically!!!
Shaun,
Trying to be even handed here.
I would think that unless you centre EVERY target, you would be shocked at how many you could potentially miss with FBlacks due to their POOR patterns!
Try shooting a FBlack 7.5 plastic wad at a Rabbit or card pattern plate at 10-15 yards through a Miroku MK38 Trap choked 3/4 & Full.
Trying to be even handed here.
I would think that unless you centre EVERY target, you would be shocked at how many you could potentially miss with FBlacks due to their POOR patterns!
Try shooting a FBlack 7.5 plastic wad at a Rabbit or card pattern plate at 10-15 yards through a Miroku MK38 Trap choked 3/4 & Full.
N
no.1topdog
Guest
Shaun. I've worked this out, and I think you lose 4.32754 targets per season by using centre dense cartridges.
I feel this may be ruining your average by a factor of 0.0000064831 but is obviously something you need to address and quickly!!
Dammit!! That's my credibility blown out of the water!!
I feel this may be ruining your average by a factor of 0.0000064831 but is obviously something you need to address and quickly!!
Dammit!! That's my credibility blown out of the water!!
Shaun, don't be so touchy!!! Dude, that's not me trying to ridicule you, that's you being overly defencive...I even remembered to put smilies at the end...I can ridicule you if you want, just so as you know what ridicule looks like, naw, second thoughts, you seen a little sensitive, I hate to read a grown man cry
Actually Shaun I believe they are spot on for you as it happens, (remember I like them myself and would use them in a heart beat) because I have watched you shoot and yes the breaks are phenomenal even through the U2 barrel which has no right vaporising clays as you seem to be doing.So how many clays do you feel i miss because of cartridge choice
But the reality is that it is the confidence you're getting through those breaks that's giving momentum to your cage time, it's easier to subconsciously remember and repeat sight pictures when things smoke than when they're just breaking with no feed back. This is in fact why all the top shots use tight chokes even though they must know it costs them the odd clay, perhaps even at distance.
To get high scores regularly you have to learn to centre things as much as possible, no good relying on the outer fringe for score building because they'll only save the day with 2 or 3 chips or weak breaks per round.
What I was mainly saying is that centre density is likely to be something FBlacks do through all guns and unlikely to be barrel related, in some cases though it isn't an ideal characteristic such as Skeet for instance or perhaps less proficient ESP guy just starting out.
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Shaun Hopkins
Well-known member
Thanks Hamid top reply thats just my thinking don't want to reley on chippy edge breaks and whlst i admit they do pattern tight its no differant to me then shooting tight chokes. Fblacks give me the confidence to stop having to think about cartridge choice meaning one less thing to think about when shooting. :thumbsup:Actually Shaun I believe they are spot on for you as it happens, (remember I like them myself and would use them in a heart beat) because I have watched you shoot and yes the breaks are phenomenal even through the U2 barrel which has no right vaporising clays as you seem to be doing.
But the reality is that it is the confidence you're getting through those breaks that's giving momentum to your cage time, it's easier to subconsciously remember and repeat sight pictures when things smoke than when they're just breaking with no feed back. This is in fact why all the top shots use tight chokes even though they must know it costs them the odd clay, perhaps even at distance.
To get high scores regularly you have to learn to centre things as much as possible, no good relying on the outer fringe for score building because they'll only save the day with 2 or 3 chips or weak breaks per round.
What I was mainly saying is that centre density is likely to be something FBlacks do through all guns and unlikely to be barrel related, in some cases though it isn't an ideal characteristic such as Skeet for instance or perhaps less proficient ESP guy just starting out.
Shaun Hopkins
Well-known member
Shaun, don't be so touchy!!! Dude, that's not me trying to ridicule you, that's you being overly defencive...I even remembered to put smilies at the end...I can ridicule you if you want, just so as you know what ridicule looks like, naw, second thoughts, you seen a little sensitive, I hate to read a grown man cry
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Will Hewland
Well-known member
I very much agree its important to think "these cartridges are capable of doing what I need them to". This PHYSICALLY affects the shooter by keeping the gun speed and general movement regular and controlled. Lost confidence = twitchy or erratic movement in many people, making sight picture ineffective.
For me, knowing that the pattern looks right to me on some cardboard helps my head. For others, balls of soot do the same. 99.9% of the time, cartridge and choke choice affect HOW a clay will break, rather than IF.
For me, knowing that the pattern looks right to me on some cardboard helps my head. For others, balls of soot do the same. 99.9% of the time, cartridge and choke choice affect HOW a clay will break, rather than IF.
Aww...Shaun, you've edited out the thinly veiled threat before I could answer you, Big Man!!! Don't worry, anything I type I'm prepared to say to your face, Big Man.
ips
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- Jul 19, 2012
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I see your point james, however the thing is with OT and ABT is that as you know targets are at a fare distance and always edge on, hits with the edge of a pattern from any cartridge can and do at times fail to break it (anyone who has shot Nutty up until recently will know what I mean) therefore we need a good solid pattern especially with 24g loads, a few fliers with so few pellets are of no use.
