Coaching during a competition

[Les53]

Ah yes the man of knowledge that is Douglas Bader... the man that lost both his legs through being a tw*t!

I must try this on occasions that I don't obey rules that I find daft and /or inconvenient.

Policeman - Good morning sir you do realise that you were doing 75 mph this is an A road the limit is 60mph...

Me - yes but it is 3am on a quite country road I really don't see the harm in going a bit faster, I think it is a daft rule anyway .. I mean what is the point nobody else on the road but me.

policeman - Ho ho ho you know sir you are absolutely right I just don't know why we make these daft rules up.. on you go sir and have a nice day... ho ho ho by the way sir one of you tail lights is out and your brake lights are not working either, safe home now sir!

Where are we going when we are debating whether or not an individual has the right to ignore rules they think daft or not worth obeying. No rules are rules and the must be adhered to otherwise what is the next rule that is to be broken.. I don't like 24g I think I will just use 28g I mean where the harm in that?

PMSL !!!

 

[Darkside]

Been watching this with some interest. I've been shooting for around 3 years now and gone from very erratic C class through to a steady B and now 'hopefully' scratching on A.

I've had a few lessons, with a few different coaches and these have been invaluable to any progress I've made. However these sessions have been supplemented by doing a few registered shoots with the same coach who did give advice before each stand.

However he never once mentioned lead but instead focussed on my hold points, foot position, target speed and angles etc and the advice was always given in a sensible and appropriate manner.

From personal experience I do feel that coaching on particular target types on a practice basis is great, but advice in context at an actual registered shoot is vital to help beginners progress. I appreciate this may not strictly be within the rules and there will always be 'grey areas' but without this I would certainly have got tired of getting spanked at comps and packed it in long ago.

I've never 'won' anything despite the advice and I often shoot birds only anyway, so I'm not in it for the money but as long as it's kept sensible I don't see its a problem. I certainly don't get upset about it and I see it most weekends.

Just my thoughts.

So long as once you step into the cage your on your own...I don't see your doing anything wrong!!! (Please correct me if there is a rule about giving advice before someone steps into the cage

 

[Iggy]

I've never seen Douglas Bader shoot?

Bet he's good at rabbits.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Douglas Bader was a tremendous character and had a never say die attitude which was admirable but he lost his legs through his own stupidity and disobeying orders... if you believe the film blurb. Would hew have been a crack shot at the rabbits ...well I will have to get the lowdown on that from someone who knew his shooting style! I don't think he would have made it as a hedge monkey his legs got stuck in the mud and he had to remove them... according to the film blurb.

 

[Jay]

Maybe i'm reading it wrong but I feel that calling Douglas Bader a tw*t is disrespectful. Didn't he become a fighter pilot, after he lost his legs ? That shows some spuds in my book. That shows a can do attitude - a winning attitude.

Bed wetting about beginners having a little coaching doesn't.

When I shoot some registered competition on Saturday I'm going to focus on what I need to do right and not concern myself with what others are doing. Except of course my wife, who's only shot about 6 times so i'll be coaching her - between rounds of course  :rabbi: .   

 

[Lee Roberts]

Never been stopped for speeding at a shoot ground..... Didn't realise there were any limits .........


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[jwpzx9r]

Maybe i'm reading it wrong but I feel that calling Douglas Bader a tw*t is disrespectful. Didn't he become a fighter pilot, after he lost his legs ? That shows some spuds in my book. That shows a can do attitude - a winning attitude.

Bed wetting about beginners having a little coaching doesn't.

When I shoot some registered competition on Saturday I'm going to focus on what I need to do right and not concern myself with what others are doing. Except of course my wife, who's only shot about 6 times so i'll be coaching her - between rounds of course  :rabbi: .

You are missing the point or have not read the quote! Nobody is criticising the mans bravery and commitment or winning attitude.. but he did lose his legs through his own stupidity doing something that at the time he was ordered not to and did not infact have the ability to do... so at that point in his life I feel justified in saying he lost his legs through being a tw*t !

 

[timps]

So long as once you step into the cage your on your own...I don't see your doing anything wrong!!! (Please correct me if there is a rule about giving advice before someone steps into the cage )

The way it is worded you can give advice outside the cage for sporting. However for any disciplines shot in rounds, skeet, sportrap, trap etc. you cannot give advice once the round of 25 starts regardless of being on the mark/stand, walking to the next mark/stand or stood back from the mark/stand.

 

[Jay]

You are missing the point or have not read the quote! Nobody is criticising the mans bravery and commitment or winning attitude.. but he did lose his legs through his own stupidity doing something that at the time he was ordered not to and did not infact have the ability to do... so at that point in his life I feel justified in saying he lost his legs through being a tw*t !

I know the thread is diverting now but I wouldn't use a war film as a basis for what soldiers, sailors or airmen would have been like, films are rarely accurate. There are quite a few instances of where things have happened and it's always because the scapegoat didn't follow orders. There's always more to this type of story.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Never been stopped for speeding at a shoot ground..... Didn't realise there were any limits ......... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

the ref to speeding is nothing to do with shooting it is to highlight the point that if in general we only "obey rules we think are sensible" then where does that leave us?

But back to the post can you answer the question posed at the end which is the worse of the two rule infringements using 4g more than the rules allow or having someone there telling where to put your legal 24g load ? If you can't shoot which is the worse of the two evils hell make it a 32g load if you don't know where you are shooting the load you shoot is of little consequence but shooting a legal load and having someone tell you where to place it ... I reckon you are going to break more targets, however can you imagine the crap hitting the fan if you were caught using a 32g load in place of 24g in a registered competition!

 

[Darkside]

Thanks Timps, that's what I thought

 

[Jay]

the ref to speeding is nothing to do with shooting it is to highlight the point that if in general we only "obey rules we think are sensible" then where does that leave us?

But back to the post can you answer the question posed at the end which is the worse of the two rule infringements using 4g more than the rules allow or having someone there telling where to put your legal 24g load ? If you can't shoot which is the worse of the two evils hell make it a 32g load if you don't know where you are shooting the load you shoot is of little consequence but shooting a legal load and having someone tell you where to place it ... I reckon you are going to break more targets, however can you imagine the crap hitting the fan if you were caught using a 32g load in place of 24g in a registered competition!

Interesting concept but lets consider the person can shoot and i'll stick to what i know best which is trap. I think there are two schools of thought with this one.

a. The shooter is at an advantage because he/she is using heavier loads, or;

b. The shooter is actually at a disadvantage because he/she will become fatigued (and thus lose concentration) before those using regulation 24grm loads

Given the nature of Trap I think using heavier load wouldn't provide an real advantage over the course of the competition

I think we can look at pushing the rules with all these things - coaching, loads, chokes, but at the end of the day you still got to shoot the score and it takes more than any of these things to do it on the day.

 

[Iggy]

It was always outside the cage and given in such a way as to make me asses the target for myself as opposed to simply telling me what to do.

Having said that I do see advice being given to shooters in the cage, but in the vast majority of the cases of this I see it will be to a relative beginner without which advice they would have doubtless blanked the stand. I don't personally have a problem with this.

 

[Lee Roberts]

Never been stopped for speeding at a shoot ground..... Didn't realise there were any limits ......... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalkthe ref to speeding is nothing to do with shooting it is to highlight the point that if in general we only "obey rules we think are sensible" then where does that leave us?But back to the post can you answer the question posed at the end which is the worse of the two rule infringements using 4g more than the rules allow or having someone there telling where to put your legal 24g load ? If you can't shoot which is the worse of the two evils hell make it a 32g load if you don't know where you are shooting the load you shoot is of little consequence but shooting a legal load and having someone tell you where to place it ... I reckon you are going to break more targets, however can you imagine the crap hitting the fan if you were caught using a 32g load in place of 24g in a registered competition!

The topic on this thread is Couching (or advise from a mate) whilst your shooting.... I've seen lots of naughty size loads being used and the prof is in the cartridge bin in full view of all of us..... That I feel would be classed as a true cheating way to top your class .......
But me giving my daughter some advise and support I can't see its a sackable or offensive and really doing any shooter harm...
Read the whole threads on here 90% have no real issues with it.... if my Lauren was hitting 80+ every week I would be looking
Her for advise..
The way I see it the only people moaning about it are mainly class winners every week... Are you all scared you might loose to a 11 year old girl because I told her what she was doing wrong??

Like I said before we ALL started somewhere ......


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[** Pending Removal **]

Douglas Bader was an RAF hero......not a tw*t....!

My father was RAF and I am not really happy with a comment based on what has been written or from films instead of real knowledge of the man.

Lots of our military heroes did not obey rules is rules....that is half of why we won the war. My father in law was involved in setting up the mash hospital as a Consultant surgeon.....he was always in trouble for throwing away the gun they gave him...

His comment was that he was there to save lives not take them.....true story.

Douglas Bader was an RAF hero......not a tw*t....!

My father was RAF and I am not really happy with a comment based on what has been written or from films instead of real knowledge of the man.

Lots of our military heroes did not obey rules is rules....that is half of why we won the war. My father in law was involved in setting up the mash hospitals overseas as a Consultant surgeon during WW2.....he was always in trouble for throwing away the gun they gave him...

His comment was that he was there to save lives not take them.....true story.

My great grandfather in law lost both his legs flying in the 1st world war.....and spent WW2 in the War Office.

We should 'Always' honour our heroes.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Interesting concept but lets consider the person can shoot and i'll stick to what i know best which is trap. I think there are two schools of thought with this one.

a. The shooter is at an advantage because he/she is using heavier loads, or;

b. The shooter is actually at a disadvantage because he/she will become fatigued (and thus lose concentration) before those using regulation 24grm loads

Given the nature of Trap I think using heavier load wouldn't provide an real advantage over the course of the competition

I think we can look at pushing the rules with all these things - coaching, loads, chokes, but at the end of the day you still got to shoot the score and it takes more than any of these things to do it on the day.

That is not answering the question I have already said I don't think a heavier load is an advantage to a novice shooter if they don't know where they are shooting! But is someone who is shooting the legal load but being coached at an advantage?

I also do not agree with this "The shooter is actually at a disadvantage because he/she will become fatigued (and thus lose concentration) before those using regulation 24grm loads" you are making a huge assumption here people were shooting 36 g loads quite effectively before 24g was even thought about!

But your observation reinforces what the perception is if someone was caught using 28g or 32g instead of 24g in a competition there would be all sorts of crap flying yet actually having someone tell you where to shoot to hit the target with a legal load... easier to shoot load is well... acceptable ?

 

[chippy]

The topic on this thread is Couching (or advise from a mate) whilst your shooting.... I've seen lots of naughty size loads being used and the prof is in the cartridge bin in full view of all of us..... That I feel would be classed as a true cheating way to top your class ....... But me giving my daughter some advise and support I can't see its a sackable or offensive and really doing any shooter harm... Read the whole threads on here 90% have no real issues with it.... if my Lauren was hitting 80+ every week I would be looking Her for advise.. The way I see it the only people moaning about it are mainly class winners every week... Are you all scared you might loose to a 11 year old girl because I told her what she was doing wrong?? Like I said before we ALL started somewhere ...... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

i know what you mean ref shell load sizes. i still cannot understand how those 32 6s get in my bag.

 

[Shaun Hopkins]

Douglas Bader was an RAF hero......not a tw*t....!

+1

How on gods earth  anyone make such an absurd statement is beyond me :fie:

 

[Jay]

I know there's no answer to the question because my answer is that there's no point in answering it.

The purpose of my observation is to support the fact that If your going to be concerning yourself with what others may, or may not be doing in the competition then you're allowing yourself to become distracted and that isn't going to help your own performance.

Personally if I notice someone is using anything over 24 grm in OT i'm not going to grass them up or whine about it because there's no point. I use 24grm for everything anyway including UT and  ABT where unless the rules have changed 28grm is allowed. Likewise if I was shooting ESP and I noticed someone getting some kind advice whilst in the cage I still wouldn't worry about them.

Best just to think about what you need to do mate and forget about everyone else. 

 

[Lee Roberts]

chippy
Are you sure your on the right thread ? I thought 80 yard pheasant was in the 32g & 36g range... .
 
 
 
 


i know what you mean ref shell load sizes. i still cannot understand how those 32 6s get in my bag.

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