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Detail over Contrast…


Hermit
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Thought I’d share this YouTube video.

Some really interesting information and very well made. 

Would love the opinion of our resident expert, @EdLyons??

Hope you all enjoy over a brew.

H

 

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Thanks for posting the vid. Whilst I'm not in any way qualified in ophthalmology or optometry, I have read extensively on how vision works, how to care for the eyes and what vision habits are beneficial. As such it strikes me that what Dr Colo is pointing out seems very believable and bears out some experimenting I've done with different coloured lenses.

I also think he's right about training yourself to see the target as a clay rather than just a moving blob.

For some time now I've settled on using the same pale yellow lens for every target, regardless of weather, background or light (Except when the sun is in the field of view) and I can't remember the last time anyone questioned a call when I've been reffing. 

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thanks hermit ,  brilliant video , very informative to the layman   !!   

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58 minutes ago, Westward said:

Thanks for posting the vid. Whilst I'm not in any way qualified in ophthalmology or optometry, I have read extensively on how vision works, how to care for the eyes and what vision habits are beneficial. As such it strikes me that what Dr Colo is pointing out seems very believable and bears out some experimenting I've done with different coloured lenses.

I also think he's right about training yourself to see the target as a clay rather than just a moving blob.

For some time now I've settled on using the same pale yellow lens for every target, regardless of weather, background or light (Except when the sun is in the field of view) and I can't remember the last time anyone questioned a call when I've been reffing. 

Have to say unfortunately I see most clays as a 2 dimensional blob, even after regular eye tests

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Posted (edited)

It got me thinking that, other than the extremes in light condition, say evening woodland on an overcast day and targets into the midday sun, is lens colour the ocular equivalent of choke changing?
 

At least with chokes we’re only ever realistically moving up or down one, maybe two, degrees of construction.*

But with the huge number of lens shades available, it’s almost impossible to know which is the ‘right shade’ of yellow, for example, to use…and we’ve not even started on black clays, orange clays etc etc and the mix you regularly see on a sporting layout. 
 

In any instance though, it makes sense to me to focus on detail over contrast.

H

*For the record, I’m 1/2 & 1/2 welded in so maybe not the best to comment on this!!

 

Edited by Hermit
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I do have to say that I find the huge range of Pilla lenses VERY confusing and a very expensive rip off . Randolph Rangers seem far better value for money .

What ever happened to Decot?

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3 hours ago, MR.ANGRY said:

I do have to say that I find the huge range of Pilla lenses VERY confusing and a very expensive rip off . Randolph Rangers seem far better value for money .

What ever happened to Decot?

Can still be sourced from the States 

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4 hours ago, MR.ANGRY said:

I do have to say that I find the huge range of Pilla lenses VERY confusing and a very expensive rip off . Randolph Rangers seem far better value for money .

What ever happened to Decot?

Stupidly sold all my Rangers and got suckered into Pilla’s, then sold them all and back on Rangers. 

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Given the variety of clay colour, course environment, weather conditions etc, what are peoples go to colour? 

Other than direct sunlight, does anyone change lenses regularly whilst going around a course??

Thinking about investing in a decent set of glasses as I currently just have a cheap and cheerful Evolution multi lens set. 

25 minutes ago, donna said:

Stupidly sold all my Rangers and got suckered into Pilla’s, then sold them all and back on Rangers. 

Well that is interesting as I looked on at your advert last week with envious eyes! 
 

Clearly you’ve used both so what is it in your opinion, if you don’t mind me asking, that makes Ranger better than Pilla??

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I can’t specifically speak for other people as I only see through my eyes, but chances are most other human beings aren’t that different to me (in ocular respects at least). My opinion hasn’t changed in the last 15 years and it’s basically this: 

Find a frame design that you like, that works with your face shape and over-ear defenders if used. 

Find a colour you like, that makes as many clays look clear against the background as possible. Don’t use any darker version of this colour than you really need. If you’re not squinting in bright light (obviously not with direct sun in your eyes) then that’s dark enough. For me it’s about a 40 to 50 lens.

Get one other lens that is darker for when a course setter is rubbish and is chucking clays into the sun. Hope you rarely need them.

You don’t need to worry about paying 5 X the price to get a lense that supposedly is more perfect than a “standard” one. You’re not required to identify the brand of clay at 30 yards by reading the writing on it. 
 

I really believe the zillions of lens colours available in the premium glasses are a distraction and are there to draw your money away from you, from fear of not having all the gear. There is just no way you can use them all. Even if there is a perfect lens for the several situations you may be in, you aren’t easily able to swap them during the shoot without significant distraction to your shooting. (I know lots of people who have a huge array of colours, that play about in the car park looking through them all before sticking one on for the whole shoot, so no way are they changing for different stands much). Usually when somebody is really promoting the various colours, they are selling them.

Its potentially more complex if you need prescription lenses. Well, it is if you let it be.. I’ve had them all, paid for complex tests, had special glasses from many brands, inserts for Pilla, and more. I now swear by Specsavers, who offer two colours I like and you just choose some good sunglass frames to suit, just make sure they have adjustable nose pads so you can set them high for shooting. A fraction of the price compared to Shooting specials you can go for.

For reference, I don’t have anything tricky with my eyes, other than a long distance prescription these days. (No prescription years ago). So granted, anybody with something causing other troubles such as astigmatism or whatever, go and see Ed Lyons perhaps.

I know I sound like a weary cynic, but I’ve learned the hard and expensive way that glasses should be right for you, but they can be a simple and fairly inexpensive part of your shooting kit. 

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When I used just straight lenses I loved rangers, good value, simple range and pretty available, very good gear for the money.

When I needed prescription I went to pilla 580 and 540 now, and I must say they are superb, much better than inserts in normal glasses in my opinion. Having said that I still only get my pillas in basic colours I've used for years similar to what I had in the ranger, as the lenses are coloured to order, 44N purple and 76HC yellow. Pilla are masters of marketing, they know how to rejuvenate sales every so often, they know how shooters think!

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The part of that video that interested me was how eyes see colour / monochrome and his idea of using the lightest tint to allow more light into the eyes, my eyesight is to poor to clearly see the clay properly so I'll just shoot at the fuzzy blob and hope for the best 😁

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I have really bad eyesight and need bifocal glasses for everyday use.  When I had the Rangers I had the inserts which were very comfortable and didn’t affect my vision when shooting at all, I even had the bifocal at the bottom so I could read the score card! I had 5 colours but really only used a few.  I got the Pilla’s with the inserts and in my honest opinion they are not a patch on the Ranger inserts. The Ranger inserts were glass, the Pilla’s are plastic and much smaller. I had 2 Pilla inserts done and they just were not clear at all, my vision was blurred on longer targets and I was just not happy with them.  Again, I had 4 colour lens but really only used 2. I went back to Rangers and instead of inserts I’ve just picked out 2 colours I mainly use (one light and one slightly darker) and have had the prescription lens done so no more inserts.  I got them done when they had a Thanksgiving sale from the states and would stick with them all the time now.  The frames were quite expensive so rather than keep changing them in case I broke the frame (my prescription is quite thick) I took one lens into my local opticians and picked a cheap frame out and they inserted them for me for a small amount of money.  So no more fiddling around in between stands.  As Will said, pick a colour that suits YOU, as all see things differently and what I thought was good for say blaze targets my husband didn’t, he would go for a completely different colour.  IF I was brave  enough  I’d have laser surgery so I didn’t have to worry about it but I’m afraid I’m a wimp when it comes to eyes!! 
 

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Interesting. I love my polarised lenses. I did some testing with Ed and found that the shade was more important than the polarisation We had a polarised generic purple lens to test against my non-polarised personal purple shade and my polarised brown lenses. If I ever compete at trap I'm going back for my personalised purple and getting that polarised. 

The thing I notice about my super successful trap friends is that they have mega extensive colour discrimination. 

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20 hours ago, vmax1010 said:

The part of that video that interested me was how eyes see colour / monochrome and his idea of using the lightest tint to allow more light into the eyes, my eyesight is to poor to clearly see the clay properly so I'll just shoot at the fuzzy blob and hope for the best 😁

Then surely, the bit of fuzz you see around the target, makes it appear a bit bigger, but not enough to get a "Loss."

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My understanding (and process) is the same as Will's - use the lightest lenses that avoid squinting. You must not squint.

The video tends to suggest use as dark as possible to open the iris as much as possible. I'm not sure this is really correct because we are focusing on a small object and not the overall picture - we don't need depth of field. Also, I think, focus tends to be better with the iris as tight as possible (bit like a camera). We need Ed to comment on that however.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Freddypip said:

The video tends to suggest use as dark as possible to open the iris as much as possible.

My take away from the video was the exact opposite. They seem to advocate using as light as possible a lens. Circa 22:30 on the video. 

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On 3/30/2022 at 10:45 PM, Will Hewland said:

I now swear by Specsavers, who offer two colours I like and you just choose some good sunglass frames to suit

So do Specsavers do polycarbonate (or like impact resistance) lenses or do you just use regular lenses?

Thanks,

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1 minute ago, Hermit said:

So do Specsavers do polycarbonate (or like impact resistance) lenses or do you just use regular lenses?

Thanks,

Just their ordinary lenses, which are shatter-proof, they tell me.

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I recently purchased my first ever prescription shooting glasses. In theory, both Boots and Specsavers could supply but only with their existing sunglasses frames and neither had any idea what I was talking about when I mentioned impact resistance, tint options or polycarbonate. No blame for either company as they supply prescription sunglasses all the time, it's just that shooting glasses are such a small part of the business that the staff have no experience.

After some fannying around I ordered from Optilabs. A good start was that they actually answered the phone - unlike their main competitor - and they clearly knew what they were doing as they answered my questions very well. I also thought that if they're good enough for Becky McKenzie then they're certainly good enough for me.

No regrets at all, decent price, <2weeks delivery and amazingly bright and clear view. I recommend them to anyone who doesn't want to stump up silly money for the top brand.

p.s. I went with the ProVision frames which are exactly the same as the Zeiss Sport ones.

Edited by Westward
added postscript.
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Yeah admittedly Specsavers of course are clueless about shooting, so you have to look after yourself to a degree. You have to prod them to see colour options and what they call “Ultradrive” is what I call a 40% yellow lense. They also have a bright yellow, a grey and a few browns. (Maybe others too..) I would avoid the grey as it kills contrast. You need to get a frame that you figure will work, with an adjustable nose rest, then show them that the glasses will sit higher than usual on your nose (for when you drop your face on to the gun) so they can set them and indeed put the centre of the prescription a bit higher in the lens perhaps. As long as you appreciate all that it works well (for me).

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