Sporting scores

[Jonny English]

We packed our bags and left the CPSA over 10 years ago because of the standard of the rounds. The rounds were all getting set up for AA shooters, in C and B class we were getting scores in the late 30's at times, when 50 to 60's should have been achievable. This is no good for the lower classes, they need to make in enjoyable for everyone and still some challenging stands for the AA lads. If all C and B class shooters left the CPSA would crumble.

 

[Emmsy]

make the shoots just like the fitasc the other day, varied and between close and long range and all classes will be treated fairly and the classification system will balance everything out.

as we arnt professional and only shooting every other weekend or the like its good to know you can miss a handful but still know you are in with a chance if you can break the harder stuff.

 

[Steve Lovatt]

One point I m trying to make is that courses can be set which the course setter thinks are right and then there are still big scores coming in

Take garlands two weeks ago I set that to be interesting and challenging , I even walked round in the morning thinking should I tweak it in a bit but I didn't . There was a std clay crossing at 50 yards , a battues at 55 , two big teal , longish midi looper , those that shot it will remember , high gun was 98 not an easy course but bloody good shooting and b and c class were won on 90 and there again something just clicked on the day and it happens , so the scores say it was an easy shoot but I assure you it wasn't .

 

[jim french]

Top shots will always put in big scores and for me there's nothing better than watching a top gun at his or her best.For me if the shoot is hard my score seems to improve I get no pleasure shooting straight at clays.Today some targets if seen on a game shoot and shot at the keeper would ask you to leave.Perhaps it's time for two types of sporting old type fast wanting lead with some distance and technical high scoring under your feet straight at it.A few weeks ago I watched a top shot walk into a empty stand and call pull without seeing the targets first seems the shoot was practiced on the Saturday by thirty plus people,sporting should be special not repetition it should be testing for all even those at the top,saying there's room for more in AA is ok so long as you keep high scoring shoots to keep the I come out to hit clays mob happy.A bit like sports day at school no one comes first or last.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

One point I m trying to make is that courses can be set which the course setter thinks are right and then there are still big scores coming in

Take garlands two weeks ago I set that to be interesting and challenging , I even walked round in the morning thinking should I tweak it in a bit but I didn't . There was a std clay crossing at 50 yards , a battues at 55 , two big teal , longish midi looper , those that shot it will remember , high gun was 98 not an easy course but bloody good shooting and b and c class were won on 90 and there again something just clicked on the day and it happens , so the scores say it was an easy shoot but I assure you it wasn't .

Pssssst..... I am listening....and you are quite right Steve..... xx

Keep doing what you are doing....people like it.

I cannot see who posted (I am on iPad).....but...... there is nothing wrong with several straights.....it makes for a great shoot off. Across the world most shoots do not even start seriously until you get in the shoot off. (ISSF disciplines you shoot to make the shoot off.....some FITASC disciplines ...you shoot to make the shoot off).

The skill of winning after doing a straight.....is to keep your competition focus ....until you have finished a shoot off and hopefully won it. Some people cannot do that....and wind down after doing the straight.......Fataaaaaaaaaaaaaaal...!!

 

[Steve Lovatt]

Hey JIM I wished everyone would shoot my stands without seeing clays I would save a lot !!!!!

 

[Steve Lovatt]

Nicola there's a point make a sporting straight able and then put all prize money into the shoot off places .

There goes the cat into the pigeon loft again !!!!!!!

 

[ExSCA]

I agree with a lot written here - I don't believe there is anything such as an 'easy' shoot - they all need respect, and they need to be hit.  S'funny, when I see big scores being built it is often the 'easier' shots that are dropped - for instance on Barn, Hoop 3 on Sunday - I saw plenty of people hitting that massive battue (I didn't) and the long distance teal (I did)  but also saw one person drop that dinner plate over the hedge (I hit that). My point is, shooting is a balance between technique for the tough ones, and concentration to clear up everything in between. 

I liken it to a football championship - those generally aren't won on the big games - they are won on away games to crappy clubs when a result has to be ground out.  Same as shooting, the really good shoots raise their game for a big target, but need to grind out the 'easier' ones with solid technique and fierce concentration.

The shoots I enjoy the most have been the ones that have a wide variety of targets, that test me and allow me to get a few on the board - my satisfaction comes from improving my own scores, not trying to beat the course, I KNOW that I am a long way from doing that - so I concentrate on doing what I need to do to score one more than last week/time. 

I knew that this weekend would be a test for me, it SHOULD be harder - it was an England Team selection shoot - so I expected it to be a tougher test. I didn't shoot well, but that's down to me - however, I *really* enjoyed shooting some testing targets.  As Emmsy said above (hello - didn't realise that was you on Sunday, would have said hello)  the variety was excellent, from 7 ft driven to 80yd battue, we had a bit of everything - so I would rate it as one of the better shoots I've shot recently.

 

[Hotshot100]

Some really good points made here. Well done Steve for starting it off.

At the end of the day if no one straights a shoot it couldn't have been that easy. Also if you can hit all of the targets on a stand, for you, it was easy, for the next bloke who can't hit them it's hard . for other stands it will be the other way round.

 

[Chard]

I knew that this weekend would be a test for me, it SHOULD be harder - it was an England Team selection shoot - so I expected it to be a tougher test. I didn't shoot well, but that's down to me - however, I *really* enjoyed shooting some testing targets.  As Emmsy said above (hello - didn't realise that was you on Sunday, would have said hello)  the variety was excellent, from 7 ft driven to 80yd battue, we had a bit of everything - so I would rate it as one of the better shoots I've shot recently.

I agree that selection shoots have got to be testing. There needs to be a way or sorting out the best shots for national teams etc.

If a shooter has designs on shooting for his/her county or country, then it's up to them to seek out the more testing shoots, to broaden their experience. It's easy enough to do, I suppose that's what I'm trying to do. It's common knowledge that there are plenty who stick to a couple of favoured grounds where they know they can get a big score. That's OK, but they're not doing themselves any favours. That's plain to see when they shoot out of their comfort zone at a new ground and their scores tumble.

There has to be a few soft shoots, if only so up and coming shooters can practice bread-and-butter targets. As I've been told several times, it's no good hitting all the hard ones and trick shots if you can't clear the easy stands (my problem!) Competitions are won on consistency on the ordinary targets.

 

[jim french]

Whats good about a seven foot driven sounds like a very bad partridge shoot. If every clay that got shot could then be cooked and eaten as if it where game sporting shoots would be fine.Turn up the springs and shoot on power not when its coming into land and practice all day and every day but not on the same targets as shoot days.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Whats good about a seven foot driven sounds like a very bad partridge shoot. If every clay that got shot could then be cooked and eaten as if it where game sporting shoots would be fine.Turn up the springs and shoot on power not when its coming into land and practice all day and every day but not on the same targets as shoot days.

You would be killed in France then Jim.....because one of their specialities in the very low driven that is coming off power and almost landing at your feet. Don't think of it as a partridge (even a hedge hopping typically 'English' partridge....) think of it as a pigeon coming into a magnet ....just saying :smile:

There are many many types of game birds and vermin replicated on sporting shoots......they do not all have to be high in the air...or going like sh*t of a shovel......

The clever ones are often the ones that look easy...but are doing something that you have not picked up that they are doing......this is the sign of a great course setter.

....true story :smile:

 

[jim french]

just looked at the grange farm results,spot on.

 

[ExSCA]

Whats good about a seven foot driven sounds like a very bad partridge shoot. If every clay that got shot could then be cooked and eaten as if it where game sporting shoots would be fine.Turn up the springs and shoot on power not when its coming into land and practice all day and every day but not on the same targets as shoot days.

To be fair - this wasn't coming into land - and probably seven feet is an exaggeration (but one used by a few people)  - it was a very low, very quick driven with a  small window of opportunity - here is a photo taken by Ben_W and lifted from the englishsportingclays.co.uk Facebook page (sorry Ben!)

There was only two types of shot on this from my squad - dust, or missed....

 

[Adam]

I think the simple answer is No it doesn’t matter what a shoot is won on as long as everyone enjoys it, As a course setter I’ve had shoots won on scores ranging from 85 up to 99, my dad’s had a couple of his straighted. As a shooter and course setter like Steve it can be hard to strike the right balance between keeping it enjoyable for the lower classes yet still challenging for the top shooters and I will be the first to admit I don’t always get it right. I remember the shoot that was won with 85 I looked at it in the morning and thought it was a technical shoot but not hard and was expecting a winning score around 91-93 but it either shot harder than it looked or everyone had an off day who knows. But all the feedback I got was positive and people enjoyed it.

I shoot for fun because I enjoy it, but want to be entertained and challenged at the same time. I also enjoy setting targets just as much, but I can assure you it’s much harder to get that right.

 

[Hamster]

One point I m trying to make is that courses can be set which the course setter thinks are right and then there are still big scores coming in

Take garlands two weeks ago I set that to be interesting and challenging , I even walked round in the morning thinking should I tweak it in a bit but I didn't . There was a std clay crossing at 50 yards , a battues at 55 , two big teal , longish midi looper , those that shot it will remember , high gun was 98 not an easy course but bloody good shooting and b and c class were won on 90 and there again something just clicked on the day and it happens , so the scores say it was an easy shoot but I assure you it wasn't .

I've only shot Weston Wood once, right after a good score at Hornet  but couldn't get to 80 ! Yet there were several local/regular boys who had dropped a tiny handful, one on 97 if memory serves, no way can that be described as the result of easy targets but simply outstanding skills.

In almost every single case where shooters are discussing their cards, the talk is of the easy ones that they let get away. If you hit all the easy and mid difficulty ones and only drop one or three proper hard ones, you'll be in the top 20 in no time.

 

[jim french]

I think the simple answer is No it doesn’t matter what a shoot is won on as long as everyone enjoys it, As a course setter I’ve had shoots won on scores ranging from 85 up to 99, my dad’s had a couple of his straighted. As a shooter and course setter like Steve it can be hard to strike the right balance between keeping it enjoyable for the lower classes yet still challenging for the top shooters and I will be the first to admit I don’t always get it right. I remember the shoot that was won with 85 I looked at it in the morning and thought it was a technical shoot but not hard and was expecting a winning score around 91-93 but it either shot harder than it looked or everyone had an off day who knows. But all the feedback I got was positive and people enjoyed it.

I shoot for fun because I enjoy it, but want to be entertained and challenged at the same time. I also enjoy setting targets just as much, but I can assure you it’s much harder to get that right.

Like i have said more than once who would want the job of putting on a shoot your damed if you do and damed if you dont.

 

[Hamster]

Like i have said more than once who would want the job of putting on a shoot your damed if you do and damed if you dont.

Don't entirely agree, there are plenty of cases of grounds that seem able to pull off the required balance. It isn't rocket science really, make sure there are plenty of targets that can be found by the B/C shooters, a few stands that only the AA's could expect to straight and one or two where even they need to be at their peak to connect. What you do not want is hard for hard sake where it's obvious you're being robbed because the setter felt like it.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

To be fair - this wasn't coming into land - and probably seven feet is an exaggeration (but one used by a few people)  - it was a very low, very quick driven with a  small window of opportunity - here is a photo taken by Ben_W and lifted from the englishsportingclays.co.uk Facebook page (sorry Ben!)

There was only two types of shot on this from my squad - dust, or missed....

wood hoop 2.jpg

If it was slightly lower it would be a Dutch special ( Biddinghuizen special). 

I don't shoot them...they break my back.... :smile: .....rather lose the point......!

 

[ExSCA]

If it was slightly lower it would be a Dutch special ( Biddinghuizen special). 

I don't shoot them...they break my back.... :smile: .....rather lose the point......!

I shot it as a crosser, and let it go past me a little bit - one good shot, rather than two stabs.

I think it was the only one I hit well on that hoop!