Shooting Technique

[ips]

What about this thought then, here goes.... If it was the case that no one did or should see a front bead or indeed the barrel then surely gun manufacturers would not put them on and all guns would have a standard set up were the barrels were set really low and comb high so that we could not see them and also there would be no need for that distracting rib either ?

Just a thought

 

[Hamster]

When a rabbit jumps or a clay dips, what is it that you move and correct to keep in contact ? Not seeing the rib or barrel, I just don't buy it.

 

[chippy]

I shot an all round today only do 1 or 2 a year.and on the ABT I started badly I hit 1 of the first 5 then started hitting them,I realised I had changed my technique I was just looking at the spot in front of the clay and shooting with no reference to the rib.totally different to the way I normally shoot.I think it only works on fast targets

 

[ips]

There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that fast trap disciplines require absolute focus on the clay only, that is a given. However IMO at some point your eyes the target and the bead are all in vision when you pull the trigger even if your brain does not register the fact. Look at the bead as you call for the target at your peril nothing good will come of it, but its there and your brain knows it. As i said earlier what you think you do and what you actually do are two different things.

 

[chippy]

Its weird because its totally different to the way I normally shoot.I usually measure my lead.but cannot complain as I won some cash and made the team

 

[Wonko the Sane]

What about this thought then, here goes.... If it was the case that no one did or should see a front bead or indeed the barrel then surely gun manufacturers would not put them on and all guns would have a standard set up were the barrels were set really low and comb high so that we could not see them and also there would be no need for that distracting rib either ?

Just a thought

My thot on that was the bead was to pacify rifle shooters.  "Sights" are so ingrained that guns w/out look unfinished sorta.  To me, even a swamped rib, pretty much ribless, looks unfinished.  Never shot a trap gun less bead, but I did have a skeet gun that didn't suffer for having lost its bead and not having a rib to start with.

But you're probably right - there is no need for that bead and rib stuff.  But try to sell a gun w/out it hahaha

Charlie

 

[Fuzrat]

My thot on that was the bead was to pacify rifle shooters.  "Sights" are so ingrained that guns w/out look unfinished sorta.  To me, even a swamped rib, pretty much ribless, looks unfinished.  Never shot a trap gun less bead, but I did have a skeet gun that didn't suffer for having lost its bead and not having a rib to start with.

But you're probably right - there is no need for that bead and rib stuff.  But try to sell a gun w/out it hahaha

Charlie

would love to buy one without the nasty unsightly bead holes, but they are pre-drilled

 

[Hawkeye]

I cannot remember if I have raised this subject before, hence the question.

When you call and move for a target, what do you see? What is your technique?

One of the reasons for asking is there is often heated debate on American forums about total focus on the clay, you never ever look at the barrels, you are not aware of the muzzles, you don't see lead off the end of your barrels, you don't see lead out at the target because you never see your muzzles or the gap. You only see the target or more precisely the front edge of the target or even more precisely the rings or dimples on the clay surface ( remember Yanks are prone to exaggeration).

So think about it before you answer, " What do you see"?

Let me talk you through a shot, you know where you are going to break it, BREAK POINT, you know where your gun hold will be HOLD POINT, you know the visual pick up point of the target and you know it's flight line.

Now do you just look at the visual pickup point, watch the clay on its line concentrate hard on the clay and never seeing the gun it glides to the  break point and smashes the clay. 

 I would be interested to know how many of you see the barrels, the rib, the muzzle and if you relate any of them to the clay and sight picture.

It may sound perfect to you or it may sound crazy, opinions please 

Also factor in both eyes open or squint one, or mount with one eye closed and you will see how heated it can get .

Ed Solomon's comment's on USA target's might explain why American shooter's don't see lead. Re; Sporting section

 

[Salopian]

The reason most American shooters don't see lead is because their heads are up there own arse or their favourite coaches arse.

 

[Fuzrat]

Having watched the videos of the worlds they dont see leed because their head is so far off the stock they cant possibly see the rib!

 

[Salopian]

Fuz, I mentioned this to them ! Of course I was wrong!

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Hmmmmm - I have to admit that I expected the Brit shooters to prevail.  The feeling that I had was that Brit courses and targets were generally more difficult and that the US targets would provide a lesson for the US shooters in how it's done.  Guess not.  And how is a shooting methodology that wins one to criticize?

Looking back at older Brit shooting texts and pix I see lots of heads up kinda gun mounts - in fact, nothing else.  And now that's a bad thing?

It's a confusing old world.  Maybe it was simpler when I was not so old myself.

Charlie

 

[Fuzrat]

Was slightly tongue in cheek, Charlie. Nothing wrong with the head up position, lots of sporters are going down the high rib high comb route, was more a reference to the constant beating into my head of "keep the nut on the butt" to stop me lifting my head to be fair most of the shooters i saw lifting their heads on the video were from down the classes.

 

[dustin dick]

1 degree of error at the muzzle means a miss by 25 inches on the centre of the target on a 40 yarder; I don't believe there are many of us can feel accuracy of that standard there has to be a big element of visual adjustment!

 

[maddmatt]

Beads are almost meaningless when it comes to shooting, if you are using the bead visually then you are measuring the lead from the bead and will never (IMO) compete at a high level. I have shot beadless for over 5 years now, at first it was strange but now it makes no difference to me, not saying its for everyone BUT you should not be conscious of a bead when you shoot.

 

[ips]

We all shoot differently and we all perceive what we are seing and doing differently we have touched this topic many times and i am allways very interested in the many different and sometimes widely different views on the matter. I firmly believe that "I" need a reference point that i am aware of but is not dominating therefore i have used a small brass bead on all my guns for about 15 years. A very good friend of mine and also a very good and experienced shooter recently tried one on my Reccomendation and states that changing to one is the best thing he has ever done. I have shot many different styles / techniques over the years most being very non conformist and now believe with hind site that the occasions i have had a run of very good form was despite of not because of said off the wall style, this i believe is the same scenario of beadless shooting. There are of course some super human shooters that can and do shoot well with anything they pick up but i dont include them as they are IMO b a s t a r d s

 

[Hamster]

Technically shooting beadless can mean a raised POI.

 

[ips]

Indeed hammy that has allways been my thoughts on the matter. Maybe just maybe beadless folk need higher combs rather than no bead

 

[Dick Arbon]

Beads are almost meaningless when it comes to shooting, if you are using the bead visually then you are measuring the lead from the bead and will never (IMO) compete at a high level. I have shot beadless for over 5 years now, at first it was strange but now it makes no difference to me, not saying its for everyone BUT you should not be conscious of a bead when you shoot.

I have tried hard not to respond to this whole argument as we all seem to have our own methods which obviously seems very difficult to put into words, (even if we do actually know what we do) but this post has tipped me over the edge.If you have a tendency to actually focus on the bead then fair enough, take it off, but I bet you will still be using the rib as a point of reference.

For those of us that do not have that tendency and actually impose the view from the master eye over that of the other eye, but focusing on the target,we couldn't shoot without a bead. I like a small brass bead, and it definitely is my point of reference.Yes, I do measure an amount of lead at the target end, and for 90% of targets with a maintained lead achieved by a pull away method never coming through the target. For fast or close birds other techniques are employed.

so please don't take my response personally, but your statement was too sweeping for at least one fellow shooter.

 

[maddmatt]

Yes my statement was very sweeping, I made the mistake of writing it after a liquid lunch, far too many pints sitting in the sun, seemed to make a lot more sense earlier ., you are correct that there is very subtle reference to the rib when shooting but it, in my case, is far less intrusive then the bead, I even tried a brass game bead and couldn't stop looking at the bloody thing...