CPSA Majors “Competition Only”

[TRINITY]

Sorry to be a pain, but what are we talking about here money wise in your average registered comp. Whatever it is than increase it by about 20/30 % and is it an amount really worth arguing or fretting about. Surely taking part ,doing your best and coming out on top is the most important factor.

 

[Richard59]

Sorry to be a pain, but what are we talking about here money wise in your average registered comp. Whatever it is than increase it by about 20/30 % and is it an amount really worth arguing or fretting about. Surely taking part ,doing your best and coming out on top is the most important factor.

Sporting wise English Open approx 1060 entries = £10,600 British approx 960 entries = £9,600 plus sponsors cash also, all competition entries kept in class. As for your “average” registered, ESP entries range from 60 ( re the EJC figure above) to 200+ ( Gunsite a Sunday in February) so the potential varies from £300-£1000+ However, and it’s a big however the “competition only” entry decision is for Majors only. As for “coming out on top” a lot of grounds, when putting out results will declare only the competition entries as class winners. 

 

[philmoss]

Just looking at the last EJC reg shoot, 35% were Birds Only. Mostly due to a high percentage of the B and C class folk not going comp. 8 comp entries from 28 entries in B!

Hi Will,

Think we both know the reason for that....Most week day reg shoots attract a different type of shooter to that of a typical weekend shooter.

Still makes me chuckle for all those on here who like to hide behind a false name & some have never or very rarely enter a registered shoot !....

I'm in the Midlands and there has been no negative feedback about shooting birds only - in fact having only shot 10 registered shoots I am still advised not to enter the competitions !!!

Hopefully Phil Moss will confirm where he is and whether demand is such that those willing to pay for competition entry are being displaced by those shooting birds only. His numbers would suggest so.

Hi Freddypop,

Who mentioned negative feedbak about shooting birds only at normal weekly registered shoots ??

How & what people do at the weekly events is all down to personal choice & ability, like you say.....youve only shot 10 registered shoots.

This debate is purely about NO birds only at the MAJOR CHAMPIONSHIPS........Nothing has been discussed about implying this at normal registered shoots !!.

Ive run various venues throughout east anglia & my new ground is on the Herts /Essex borders. Having staged numerous County/Regional & National events along with England & GB team shoots, i think ive done enough to know the differance between different customers requirements & challenges.

Good luck with your shooting 

 

[philmoss]

Once again I ask Phil to clarify what he is saying and get more bluster in return. *Shakes head sadly* I am used to that now. 

For an extension post, thanks to  @Freddypip

To clarify my comment............why do so many people with little or no knowledge of how things such as major & minor events are run seem to be critical of the governing body & those who work there ??

I asked if you are still a memberof the cpsa & are you/would you be competeing in these event....alas, no reply  !!

 

[Freddypip]

I have added in my CPSA number to my profile so the anonymity argument doesn't apply to me. I am happy to stand by what I say. I also have no objection to forums preserving anonymity as discussions should then concentrate on what is said and not the person saying them - there's no "I'm right because I've been doing it longer than you" just a better, more informed, post from those that know.

In terms of negative feedback - I mentioned it. I was making the point in response to others that having shoot competitions in the Midlands if anything I was encouraged to shoot birds only. The posts were moving towards regional differences and that might explain our different perceptions (worries) over the CPSA's announcement. Given I am at the point that I am starting to travel, the regional differences do interest me. I will re-ask the question (Phil) - does the bird only entries create an admin problem for you.

You are entirely right - I have little or no knowledge of how a major event is run. I did not suggest I did. I have been shooting for nine years and been a CPSA member for the past two. I except, I am at the bottom of your pile - the irrelevant, Class B cannon fodder that hasn't a hope of performing well at a major. That's why I didn't comment on the majors but made the point about mission creep to the local level I'm at. As I have said before I was not being critical of the CPSA decision but the tendency of some organisations to introduce a policy at a high level only to cascade it down without really thinking; as you say the majors & me are not the same !.

 

[ehb102]

To clarify my comment............why do so many people with little or no knowledge of how things such as major & minor events are run seem to be critical of the governing body & those who work there ??

I asked if you are still a memberof the cpsa & are you/would you be competeing in these event....alas, no reply  !!

Thanks for the clarification, Phil. So you are indeed saying that people shouldn't criticise or comment the CPSA because it's good enough the CPSA exist. Or you may make an exception if those people have qualifications that are yet as unspecified. Do feel free to expand on who you feel that is. I'm fairly sure that the CPSA members feel entitled to criticise, as should anyone else. Note that once again you mistake not getting a round of applause for what you say as criticism. 

Turning around and suggesting that I need to prove my right to respond on an Internet message board is rather odd. This is Shoot Clay Forum, it belongs to @Matt and so far as I'm aware it exists so people can share views and opinions. As I haven't actually made a criticism in this thread, it's becoming a rather needless time suck for me. 

 

[chesterse]

I agree with the CPSA making the major competitions non birds only. Surely these are serious events and there is a possibly that entrants going birds only would not always be taking things seriously enough and may distract those who are.

 

[Freddypip]

Stuart - Totally agree with what you say.

By the way that 682 lefty stock you passed my way seven or so years ago is still performing wonders. Thanks again.

 

[Bebo]

the irrelevant, Class B cannon fodder that hasn't a hope of performing well at a major

Welcome to the club, Freddypip, me too.  I've done a few more Reg shoots that you over the last few years and I often go targets only as I rarely score enough for a class win / place.  It happens very now and again, but not often enough for what I'd win to offset the extra I'd pay if I went comp every time.

The last time I would have won B was with a score that was 6 clear of the next B class shooter and put me 7th overall. I'd gone targets only.  The joy I gained from shooting a competition that well / consistently and seeing how I'd performed compared to my peers was worth more to me than any monetary prize.

If they get rid of targets only entries at all CPSA shoots, I'll still keep doing Reg comps, primarily as I'm interested in monitoring my progression and setting myself targets to improve, which I can only really get from the CPSA recording of scores.  The extra cost wouldn't put me off that, but I can understand if you are normally a club shooter that does the occasional nearby reg shoot for fun that it might.

 

[philmoss]

Thanks for the clarification, Phil. So you are indeed saying that people shouldn't criticise or comment the CPSA because it's good enough the CPSA exist. Or you may make an exception if those people have qualifications that are yet as unspecified. Do feel free to expand on who you feel that is. I'm fairly sure that the CPSA members feel entitled to criticise, as should anyone else. Note that once again you mistake not getting a round of applause for what you say as criticism. 

Turning around and suggesting that I need to prove my right to respond on an Internet message board is rather odd. This is Shoot Clay Forum, it belongs to @Matt and so far as I'm aware it exists so people can share views and opinions. As I haven't actually made a criticism in this thread, it's becoming a rather needless time suck for me. 

I am indeed saying nothing of the sort !!.....critisize where its due but changing MAJOR competitions to competition only & not including birds only for the minority is hardly a reason for criticism ....Look at the response from majority of shooters !.

Your previous post mentioned something about making shooters enter into a form of gambling by not allowing birds only ..... im sure on game days, your fellow shooters have entered into paying a few £ to guess the final bag/amount of shots ??.

You have entered the Essex Masters previously where there is only a competition entry fee, so there is no differance in what the cpsa has introduced is there ??.

So, i have clarrified various points BUT you still seem to avoid answering my questions as previous posts.

The CPSA number on your avitar 522405 is not recognised & is not currently in existence, so i guess that your reluctance to confirm if you would shoot any of the majors is a NO, which then makes me wonder so much has been posted when in all fairness, you wont be attending as your not currently a member of the association .

No point in continuing this as it doesnt really effect YOU as you dont support the sports governing body, which is your personal choice.

You have to be in it to win it. I welcome non cpsa members to my registered shoots & as long as they can present insurance cover & adhere to eye & ear protection, they will have a enjoyable experiance ...... Thanks 

 

[ehb102]

I am indeed saying nothing of the sort !!.....critisize where its due but changing MAJOR competitions to competition only & not including birds only for the minority is hardly a reason for criticism ....Look at the response from majority of shooters !.

Your previous post mentioned something about making shooters enter into a form of gambling by not allowing birds only ..... im sure on game days, your fellow shooters have entered into paying a few £ to guess the final bag/amount of shots ??.

You have entered the Essex Masters previously where there is only a competition entry fee, so there is no differance in what the cpsa has introduced is there ??.

So, i have clarrified various points BUT you still seem to avoid answering my questions as previous posts.

The CPSA number on your avitar 522405 is not recognised & is not currently in existence, so i guess that your reluctance to confirm if you would shoot any of the majors is a NO, which then makes me wonder so much has been posted when in all fairness, you wont be attending as your not currently a member of the association .

No point in continuing this as it doesnt really effect YOU as you dont support the sports governing body, which is your personal choice.

You have to be in it to win it. I welcome non cpsa members to my registered shoots & as long as they can present insurance cover & adhere to eye & ear protection, they will have a enjoyable experiance ...... Thanks 

You're wrong. I've never entered the Essex Masters. I shot one major completion, once, and it wasn't that. 

Thanks for checking my CPSA number on my profile. It's probably from when I was a clubman member. They changed it when I became a full member. 

I am not wrong about the gambling. I was informed that by a former CPSA director. It is an interesting point. Not one I subscribe to personally. You make an error if you think my sharing of the facts is criticism. A difference of opinion or a new fact is not criticism, except perhaps to the narcissisticly sensitive. 

Really, your attempts to find out who I am and therefore declare me fit or unfit to comment are churlish. If you don't know who I am, I'm not offended, I'm a nobody in shooting and I'm not currently someone you're doing business with. It doesn't matter who I am or how good I am, I am as entitled as anyone to comment here. 

 

[philmoss]

I have added in my CPSA number to my profile so the anonymity argument doesn't apply to me. I am happy to stand by what I say. I also have no objection to forums preserving anonymity as discussions should then concentrate on what is said and not the person saying them - there's no "I'm right because I've been doing it longer than you" just a better, more informed, post from those that know.

In terms of negative feedback - I mentioned it. I was making the point in response to others that having shoot competitions in the Midlands if anything I was encouraged to shoot birds only. The posts were moving towards regional differences and that might explain our different perceptions (worries) over the CPSA's announcement. Given I am at the point that I am starting to travel, the regional differences do interest me. I will re-ask the question (Phil) - does the bird only entries create an admin problem for you.

You are entirely right - I have little or no knowledge of how a major event is run. I did not suggest I did. I have been shooting for nine years and been a CPSA member for the past two. I except, I am at the bottom of your pile - the irrelevant, Class B cannon fodder that hasn't a hope of performing well at a major. That's why I didn't comment on the majors but made the point about mission creep to the local level I'm at. As I have said before I was not being critical of the CPSA decision but the tendency of some organisations to introduce a policy at a high level only to cascade it down without really thinking; as you say the majors & me are not the same !.

Hi Freddy.

You asked ....Does the birds only entries create a admin problem for me ??

That answer is a very simple NO !!.......Why should it ???

Any grounds operational costs are purely provided from birds only entrants, (discounted entry for colts) the differance between the B/O & Comp entry is currently £5 at most shoots inc mine.

This £5 prize fund contribution is collected onbehalf of the shooters , held & then distributed to each lettered class in a fair & balanced manor. All monenies stay in class. The high gun cash prize is solely sponsered by the ground & does NOT come from any prize money contributions from the competition shooters.

Evidence of this can be seen on our Redrick Sporting Clays Facebook page after every shoot.

Hope this answers & confirms your questions 

You're wrong. I've never entered the Essex Masters. I shot one major completion, once, and it wasn't that. 

Thanks for checking my CPSA number on my profile. It's probably from when I was a clubman member. They changed it when I became a full member. 

I am not wrong about the gambling. I was informed that by a former CPSA director. It is an interesting point. Not one I subscribe to personally. You make an error if you think my sharing of the facts is criticism. A difference of opinion or a new fact is not criticism, except perhaps to the narcissisticly sensitive. 

Really, your attempts to find out who I am and therefore declare me fit or unfit to comment are churlish. If you don't know who I am, I'm not offended, I'm a nobody in shooting and I'm not currently someone you're doing business with. It doesn't matter who I am or how good I am, I am as entitled as anyone to comment here. 

I do know who you are, you shot for your counties ladies team at a inter counties championship shoot that i held at Barrow Heath a few years ago.

I never mentioned if you were fit, unfit, if your good or not good enough. It really doesnt worry me.

So really unsure why you have mentioned something, maybe in a attempt to start something BUT alas it hasnt worked.

You are correct in the fact that we have have our differance of opinions.

So good luck in your shooting exploits & good night

 

[Richard59]

I'm in the Midlands and there has been no negative feedback about shooting birds only - in fact having only shot 10 registered shoots I am still advised not to enter the competitions !!!

Hopefully Phil Moss will confirm where he is and whether demand is such that those willing to pay for competition entry are being displaced by those shooting birds only. His numbers would suggest so.

Which Region? West Midlands or East Midlands? Am a bit long in the tooth now and having shot at a lot of grounds WM, SW & SE over the years my big ears  have picked up more negative comments than positive regarding the growth of BO entries. As a new member, think everyone would suggest birds only until you gain a classification, thereafter, and for all bar the Majors the choice remains yours.

I have added in my CPSA number to my profile so the anonymity argument doesn't apply to me. I am happy to stand by what I say. I also have no objection to forums preserving anonymity as discussions should then concentrate on what is said and not the person saying them - there's no "I'm right because I've been doing it longer than you" just a better, more informed, post from those that know.

In terms of negative feedback - I mentioned it. I was making the point in response to others that having shoot competitions in the Midlands if anything I was encouraged to shoot birds only. The posts were moving towards regional differences and that might explain our different perceptions (worries) over the CPSA's announcement. Given I am at the point that I am starting to travel, the regional differences do interest me. I will re-ask the question (Phil) - does the bird only entries create an admin problem for you.

You are entirely right - I have little or no knowledge of how a major event is run. I did not suggest I did. I have been shooting for nine years and been a CPSA member for the past two. I except, I am at the bottom of your pile - the irrelevant, Class B cannon fodder that hasn't a hope of performing well at a major. That's why I didn't comment on the majors but made the point about mission creep to the local level I'm at. As I have said before I was not being critical of the CPSA decision but the tendency of some organisations to introduce a policy at a high level only to cascade it down without really thinking; as you say the majors & me are not the same !.

Chap you do yourself a disservice, your B Class it’s us duffers in C that are “bottom of the pile” and to have got to B you must have had a fair few good days out, and irrespective of the shoot being a major, a minor or a “normal” registered shoot it’s other B shots your competing against, have a bit more faith

 

[ehb102]

correct in the fact that we have have our differance of opinions.

So good luck in your shooting exploits & good night

You are still incorrect that I have an opinion on it. I give up. 

 

[Freddypip]

East Midlands. I am a member at Kibworth which is 30 minutes from home and the best club I have visited - the facilities are always well kept, the food good, the gunshop helpful, and those running it are very friendly & welcoming. I got a grading last years so this year I shot birds when I enter with my daughter (two last year) and competition entry on other occasions; my priority when shooting with my daughter is her day out.

I am just venturing out and was impressed with the Honesburie Sunday competitions of which I did three of last year.

Probably Grange Farm (Desford) for me next or Kegworth.

 

[jasper]

Sporting wise English Open approx 1060 entries = £10,600 British approx 960 entries = £9,600 plus sponsors cash also, all competition entries kept in class. As for your “average” registered, ESP entries range from 60 ( re the EJC figure above) to 200+ ( Gunsite a Sunday in February) so the potential varies from £300-£1000+ However, and it’s a big however the “competition only” entry decision is for Majors only. As for “coming out on top” a lot of grounds, when putting out results will declare only the competition entries as class winners. 

Think a couple of quid from everyone goes to high gun now Rich. As is allowed in another rule rewrite.  And certainly none of the lower classes see any of the sponsors money. Maybe pick up a slab of shells.

And although the cpsa seem to do the right thing and keep the rest of the comp money in the classes for the majors,  I've noticed some grounds  split the total prize fund  equally among the classes , regardless of entries per class on normal reg. (As allowed)

Jasper. 

 

[vmax1010]

Simple answer is to do away with prize money and shoot for the glory of being the best 

Major competitions dish out sponsored prizes across the board 

 

[jasper]

Simple answer is to do away with prize money and shoot for the glory of being the best 

Major competitions dish out sponsored prizes across the board 

Err no. 1st in A at the English a couple of years ago. I got £350. No sponsors prizes whatsoever. No cartridges.  No cash. No hats. No chokes.No woolley jumpers. No memberships to anything. No pink gun slips. No nothing. Nada.

All the sponsor cash went to top 3 . £3500 as I recall. Its fine , it's their prizes to place where they want. Just don't go thinking they get evenly distributed  through class/ category. It's a myth.

Jasper. 

 

[tiptop]

At the end of the day if you don't agree with it vote with your feet, and don't bother to enter. It's not compulsory. Simple.

I have not shot the British Open ESP ever since they brought in the farcical qualification set up.

 

[Richard59]

Simple answer is to do away with prize money and shoot for the glory of being the best 

Major competitions dish out sponsored prizes across the board 

At present the overwhelming majority of shooters do enter competition, "do away" with such seems rather extreme.

And where pray tell would all the sponsored prizes come from? Even at a standard reg the ground owner putting up the £100-£250 HGun money simply replaces his cash back into his / hers pocket from the overall entry which therefore inc the targets only entrants. Shooting trade "sponsorship" is hard to get on board and external sponsorship is, for such a minority / controversial / media unfriendly hobby even harder.

At the end of the day if you don't agree with it vote with your feet, and don't bother to enter. It's not compulsory. Simple.

I have not shot the British Open ESP ever since they brought in the farcical qualification set up.

Come now mate don't be like that, this year I shall be passing the benchmark and will be able to have a chance in both Class (unlikely) and Veterans (even less likely)