Bill.rosa

[bill.rosa]

Hi all

I have been looking to purchase a Miruku Mc60 with fixed chokes set at a quarter & three quarters with the idea if steel shot becomes law I would be able to have the top barrel reduced but have found that some of these guns are now being sold with Teague internal multi chokes which l cannot see or feel when looking down the barrels these guns are also said to be okay with steel shot. It would be very helpful to know members feelings on whether to go for a cheaper Mc60 top barrel only reduced or pay the extra cost 300 pounds for the Teague upgraded model also do you think the upgrade would seriously alter the wonderful handling of this gun.

Best regards

Bill

 

[Jan Powell]

I was having this conversation just a few weeks ago with a very knowledgable and well respected coach. Be careful with Miroku’s and steel shot. Although the barrels pass proof they are thinner in the wall than some others. In fact, of the mainstream brands Miroku are likely to be the most problematic when it comes to long term steel use. I say likely because it’s very much a grey area at the moment.

Many will no doubt say you’ll be fine. I’d urge caution.

 

[Westward]

I used to own an MK 60 and had it Teagued so I can reassure you that it won't affect the balance and handling. That model is light up front and fairly light overall so it's very fast handling and very agile.

They're great game guns and as such steel wouldn't be a problem. Not sure about steel for higher volume clay shooting but BWM might be able to help.

 

[k80ben]

Be absolutely fine. And no reason to reduce the full choke either 

 

[Jan Powell]

Given that multichoke Miroku’s leave the factory with this sticker attached kind of says it all really. Use steel with great care and never through tight chokes.

 

[Goldfinch]

That's for fixed choke mk38 and mk60, as per the picture 

 

[JDL]

Miroku’s and all of the Brownings manufactured by them, are sold here in high numbers.
Lead shot is banned here since 1993.

I’ve heard from older shooters that they had the same discussions about steel shot at that time.
A lot of the ‘oldies’ are still using the same gun they had before this ban.

I started after the lead ban, so didn’t have to think about all those things.
When in the UK, I like to use lead, just because I can.
Strange though that I don’t change anything, at least not something I’m aware of.

Any gun proofed for nitro should be safe for ordinary/standard pressure steel shot.
As far as I know, some manufacturers are warning for steel shot through certain choke restrictions.
Mainly for shot sizes that are not allowed for clay shooting.



 

 

[TRINITY]

To me the biggest downside of non steel proof shotguns is their trade in value. Ready made excuse for dealers to offer you less.

So do yourself a favour and by a steel proof gun, then this discussion so far becomes irrelevant 

 

[Freddypip]

Not able to comment on the the lifespan of barrels & steel but the use of (harder) steel has the effect of doubling the choke. I would suggest any gun with chokes (fixed or multi) above 1/2 is not ideal for steel for that reason alone. It would be interesting to see if anyone has, or is willing to, pattern a 3/4 choke with steel at 30 yards.

 

[MartynB]

Given that multichoke Miroku’s leave the factory with this sticker attached kind of says it all really.

View attachment 8657

That’s a fixed choke 20 gauge . It actually says that on the text under the photo .  That sticker is on all fixed choke 3/4 and Full that Miroku make .  Cracking gun . But over choked for normal game shooting unless you’re fond of pheasant soup .. 

 

[k80ben]

Not able to comment on the the lifespan of barrels & steel but the use of (harder) steel has the effect of doubling the choke. I would suggest any gun with chokes (fixed or multi) above 1/2 is not ideal for steel for that reason alone. It would be interesting to see if anyone has, or is willing to, pattern a 3/4 choke with steel at 30 yards.

No true sir. I’ve shot more steel than most and Europe’s number 1 for amount shot and a world class shot shoots a full and full perazzi 

 

[Jan Powell]

Not able to comment on the the lifespan of barrels & steel but the use of (harder) steel has the effect of doubling the choke. I would suggest any gun with chokes (fixed or multi) above 1/2 is not ideal for steel for that reason alone. It would be interesting to see if anyone has, or is willing to, pattern a 3/4 choke with steel at 30 yards.

Because steel loses energy very rapidly compared to lead it’s just about useless at distance. More than that though is its lack of energy. It loses performance very quickly. This short video explains all..

 

[k80ben]

Shot steel all over the world at extreme distances at Dornsberg and in Holland. They perform the same on clays and scores won’t change at all 

 

[Doctor Lecter]

why are we discussing this  ?   are we being told we have to shoot steel ?     if it becomes law  so long as its a level playing field or everyone   so be it  !!!!    

 

[Freddypip]

We are discussing this because some Miroku guns (in this case MK60 and then the Teague version) are marked "Lead Only" and I expect some on this forum have guns which are not proofed (or marked for) steel. It might be a while off but will those guns become redundant in due course ?. I think the question was whether to still buy a MK60 marked "lead only".

The discussion was initially around the safety aspect - can we shoot steel through guns not designed for it. I'm not sure this has been answered but Ben has commented that chokes have not affected the range or patterning in his experience (including chokes above 1/2). I would still like to see some tests with a 3/4 choke.

 

[JDL]

Maybe good to read this https://www.gwct.org.uk/media/1094678/GTA_factsheet_shootingnonlead_ver102.pdf

We don’t have pattern plates at the grounds that I normally visit, but I can tell from own experience that with 3/4 and steel shot you can get convincing breaks, even on targets that are way past 50m.
Be aware that on most grounds we’re allowed to use shot size 6 (2.8mm).
At Dornsberg the max. shot size is 2.6mm, and I never needed anything bigger to break the clays there. (missed enough, but only due to operator error..)
I can assure you that they have some challenging targets over there, not only close stuff.
A few years ago they had a side event at the Perazzi Cup with a teal that was pretty far away.
Still broke if shot was placed correctly, which was the hardest part of course…
I guess that k80ben knows how far it was, as he was one of the target setters.

Most of the time 3/8 till 1/2 is all you need, but a lot, incl. myself, don’t mind using 3/4 or full.

If everyone has to use steel, it’s equal for all.

Don’t worry about your current gun, as long as it’s proofed for nitro, you’ll be fine.
For peace of mind; keep using lead till it’s really banned. (I would do the same)

 

 

[GeordieTrapper]

There seems a lot of comments about Miroku barrel thickness, surely they are the same as Browning guns, they come from the same factory. Are Browning barrels suspect for steel shot as well, I find it difficult to believe they make thinner barrels for one over the other?

 

[Westward]

There seems a lot of comments about Miroku barrel thickness, surely they are the same as Browning guns, they come from the same factory. Are Browning barrels suspect for steel shot as well, I find it difficult to believe they make thinner barrels for one over the other?

Miroku is the originator and manufacturer of the Citori actions which both companies use. They also manufacture the Cynergy but that's exclusively a Browning product. Barrels are another story. Miroku makes them, but most Browning sporters for example have fully vented barrels whereas Miroku sporters normally have a solid mid rib.

The reality is that whilst there may possibly be some commonality of barrels on field models, Miroku sporter barrels and especially trap barrels are different from those used on any Browning and are often thinner and lighter.