Upgrading a competition clay gun?

[Dunc]

[SIZE=medium]I realise that a good shot can use any gun to good effect.  However, people do pay a shedload of money to buy kit like DT11s, Perazzis and Krieghoffs and some of them are very nice indeed.  Deeply envious of some of the superb ones I saw at the weekend.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]However, at what sort of point (eg what sort of registered scores) do people move from, say £1 – 2k shotguns etc to the above?  [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium](And I know that if people can afford it, they are totally entitled to go ahead and spend their money on whatever takes their fancy!  And what better way to spend money than on a great gun.) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]And when they do, is there an increase in scores after the 'bedding in period'?  (I’d guess that there wouldn’t be much, which then takes me back to the question in my tiny mind of why ‘upgrade’ in the first place?)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Sorry if this seems convoluted, overly analytic or too simplistic.  But I do have a genuine reason to ask this![/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]To give my question a bit of perspective; for example, if a 20 yr old lad was shooting consistently and is now in the low 80s in registereds with a 525 Browning but showing a steady and consistent increase, when (if ever) should we plan to get him a new ‘tool’ for the job of further improvement? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]And for the record, he has absolutely no complaint re his well sorted Browning but as ‘dad’, I need to plan ahead. [/SIZE]

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Leave him to enjoy what he is happy with and what he is having success with.

I have seen World Championships won with the simplest of guns. It is the shooter who wins and not the gun.

 

[Will Hewland]

Yes, the upgrade is almost always to satisfy a hope for higher scores. This is unlikely - indeed the opposite may occur - if the present gun is already a good fit and has no obvious downside. I had a Browning 525 grade 1 when I started and was progressing very nicely. I felt that I would leap forward with a much more expensive gun, so I upgraded. My progress was halted for several months, before I progressed again (but as I was on an early learning curve, progress was inevitable anyway). I am pretty sure I would have gone further faster if I had not changed gun. Maybe doctored the fit a bit instead.

Pride of ownership is another element. I you can afford a pretty one, then do it if it makes you happy, but keep ownership pride and success separate when considering what you want from your gun. Anyway, as I found, you will love a cheap gun that works for you and resent an expensive one that doesn't..

BTW, my present gun is not the one I upgraded to from Browning. My present gun was my fourth gun which I have been shooting for 6 years now. For me, I had been shooting three years before I understood what I needed gun fit wise..

 

[Les53]

[SIZE=medium]I realise that a good shot can use any gun to good effect.  However, people do pay a shedload of money to buy kit like DT11s, Perazzis and Krieghoffs and some of them are very nice indeed.  Deeply envious of some of the superb ones I saw at the weekend.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]However, at what sort of point (eg what sort of registered scores) do people move from, say £1 – 2k shotguns etc to the above?  [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium](And I know that if people can afford it, they are totally entitled to go ahead and spend their money on whatever takes their fancy!  And what better way to spend money than on a great gun.) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]And when they do, is there an increase in scores after the 'bedding in period'?  (I’d guess that there wouldn’t be much, which then takes me back to the question in my tiny mind of why ‘upgrade’ in the first place?)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Sorry if this seems convoluted, overly analytic or too simplistic.  But I do have a genuine reason to ask this![/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]To give my question a bit of perspective; for example, if a 20 yr old lad was shooting consistently and is now in the low 80s in registereds with a 525 Browning but showing a steady and consistent increase, when (if ever) should we plan to get him a new ‘tool’ for the job of further improvement? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]And for the record, he has absolutely no complaint re his well sorted Browning but as ‘dad’, I need to plan ahead. [/SIZE]

I will second what Nic (Tinker Bell) just said, makes perfect sense. I've had several Perazzi's, a DT10 and I still have a DT11, but I shot no better with any of them than I do with my old Miroku 3800 to be honest and that is 23 years old!!!! Every time I changed to a Perazzi my scores dropped in a big way, nothing wrong with them, it was just me!Yes he will probably want to upgrade at some point, but it will not necessarily improve his scores, grail guns simply do not exist otherwise I would have got mine by now!! Anyway, just out of interest, if he's twenty years old why not leave it to him to worry about it and to pay for it? :biggrin:

 

[ips]

Tinker is spot on.

But let me put this to you. Until a shooter is experienced enough to say what is right and what is wrong with all aspects of gun fit and gun dynamics it wont make any difference "but" once he reaches a level were he is saying the comb is too high or the length is wrong or the barrel is too heavy or the gun moves too fast etc etc etc then you may consider joining the rest of us in the search for the holly grail, spending many thousands on different guns in the hope that a couple more targets will appear on the card. Until then money will be better spent on practice. Remember though the above will happen and you WILL need to move up to the next level its just the way it is my friend and even though many of us know it is an endless battle we just cannot pull away from the hunt.

 

[Dunc]

Thanks all.  And I'm mightly relieved.  However, I needed to ask in order to start to budget for one of the above if the answer would have been different. 

Have a great week and thanks for your constructive replies!

 

[ips]

One final thing, "within reason" and "generaly" speaking a barrel is just a barrel and an action is just an action. "Most" of the gun fit and the handling charecteristics are in the stock so if you really must move up in the future you may want to consider spending your money on a fitted stock or a nil grif. £1600 for the latter gives you endless possible adjustments to try out (if that's what floats yer boat) and is in effect a new gun for a fraction of new gun costs.

Just my opinion.

 

[Will Hewland]

Thanks all.  And I'm mightly relieved.  However, I needed to ask in order to start to budget for one of the above if the answer would have been different. 

Have a great week and thanks for your constructive replies!

If the Browning is good, you can improve it sensibly by double checking the fit and ensuring that it has a decent recoil pad, always worth it. Isis x pad probably.

If there is budget to put towards progress, spend it on a session with Ed S or Carl Bloxham who will also tell you if the gun has any shortcomings for you..

 

[Les53]

  However, I needed to ask in order to start to budget for one of the above if the answer would have been different. 

Blimey, you are buying guns for your adult son!!!!!  OK ......look.....would you like to adopt an old trap shooter? ( I would settle for shells only!!!!) :laugh:

 

[Dunc]

If the Browning is good, you can improve it sensibly by double checking the fit and ensuring that it has a decent recoil pad, always worth it. Isis x pad probably.

If there is budget to put towards progress, spend it on a session with Ed S or Carl Bloxham who will also tell you if the gun has any shortcomings for you..

Thanks CleverSC3.  He's in Phil Coley's Academy and some of the coaches there have already sorted him out re fit and balance (and of course mental and technical training as well). 

I put an Isis pad on it in the summer which has been fantastic.  Amazing just how effective it is!

 

[Will Hewland]

Thanks CleverSC3.  He's in Phil Coley's Academy and some of the coaches there have already sorted him out re fit and balance (and of course mental and technical training as well). 

I put an Isis pad on it in the summer which has been fantastic.  Amazing just how effective it is!

Sounds perfect. Just get on and shoot then!

 

[Dunc]

Blimey, you are buying guns for your adult son!!!!!  OK ......look.....would you like to adopt an old trap shooter? ( I would settle for shells only!!!!) :laugh:

He's got another 4 years of university ahead of him and his summer job doesn't pay for much shooting.......    However, can't tell you how delighted I am in being able to support him shooting and seeing him progress.  Almost as much as I'm delighted at the feedback from this thread!! 

Mind you, wish he was a rifle shooter like myself, he did give the F Class boys a run for their money at Bisley last year but since then, we focus on our own disciplines. I crashed my scores last year by doing some sporting on a Sunday at Valley View when I had a rifle competiton the next day.  Lesson learned!

 

[Les53]

He's got another 4 years of university ahead of him and his summer job doesn't pay for much shooting.......    However, can't tell you how delighted I am in being able to support him shooting and seeing him progress.  Almost as much as I'm delighted at the feedback from this thread!! 

Mind you, wish he was a rifle shooter like myself, he did give the F Class boys a run for their money at Bisley last year but since then, we focus on our own disciplines. I crashed my scores last year by doing some sporting on a Sunday at Valley View when I had a rifle competiton the next day.  Lesson learned!

I wish him well at Uni and he is very lucky to have a father who can help him to shoot. Yes rifle and shotgun do not always mix too well I'm afraid. There are quite a few of us on here that have shot rifle and or pistol as well as shotguns, have you tried out the trap layouts at Bisley yet?

 

[Dunc]

I wish him well at Uni and he is very lucky to have a father who can help him to shoot. Yes rifle and shotgun do not always mix too well I'm afraid. There are quite a few of us on here that have shot rifle and or pistol as well as shotguns, have you tried out the trap layouts at Bisley yet?

My dad was really helpful of my shooting when I was a lad so it's nice to be able to continue the tradition.  I still shoot at least 6 days a week, but at the end of the winter league next month, will be taking a rest for the summer!  (so that I can shoot with Ben when I can).  He will be teaching me this time!

We're doing Bisley in a couple of weekend's time.  I only work a few miles from there and was in the Lord Robert's Centre every day last week shootinig!  Finding all this 10m stuff a bit boring now.............. 

Thanks.

 

[Les53]

My dad was really helpful of my shooting when I was a lad so it's nice to be able to continue the tradition.  I still shoot at least 6 days a week, but at the end of the winter league next month, will be taking a rest for the summer!  (so that I can shoot with Ben when I can).  He will be teaching me this time!

We're doing Bisley in a couple of weekend's time.  I only work a few miles from there and was in the Lord Robert's Centre every day last week shootinig!  Finding all this 10m stuff a bit boring now.............. 

Thanks.

Why don't you try a bit of trap shooting? They have good layouts at Bisley and as far as I know the NCSC still have a few coaches on site too.

 

[ips]

6 days a week, wow.

Lucky you.

 

[Will Hewland]

Why don't you try a bit of trap shooting? They have good layouts at Bisley and as far as I know the NCSC still have a few coaches on site too.

Because its deadly dull. His son is doing proper shooting. Don't confuse things!

 

[Dunc]

Why don't you try a bit of trap shooting? They have good layouts at Bisley and as far as I know the NCSC still have a few coaches on site too.

Good idea. When I go to my family home, my mates in a local club have a Monday night shoot of 20 ABT and 30 sporting.  Invariably we/he scores well in the sporting but the ABT is a lot more difficult than I expected.  Guess there may have been a post or two on this theme before.........  

 

[ips]

Because its deadly dull. His son is doing proper shooting. Don't confuse things!

my turn ....

Not biting