Turn back time

[Jay]

With the advent of Dubai and the great interest shown in it from all calibre of shooters is it time in the uk we started to do more old style open shoots , where there are no classes top 10 to 15 people win the money , no need to manipulate averages just need to aspire to get better ????

I know the response I will get from the AA shooters but how about the other majority ????

Totally agree, I think the current system is probably impeding many shooters development, the averages and class system is a bit of a distraction really. Lets keep it simple, prizes to x position proportionate to number of competitors on the day.

It would probably encourage more to shoot during the winter months as well (in Trap anyway)

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Don't think for one minute peeps....that people are going to Dubai for the scenery / shopping etc.....they are going for the challenge.

What makes it very interesting this year is the simo head game....it will be a lotto...and interesting to see who wins.....!

I think that those that will be in the mix are going to be those with a strong mental game who have the experience of working with mind coaches.

This sort of thing makes it very interesting....well for me at least...!

I want to be there to see who can hold it together...

 

[DT10 MAL]

interesting comments by all , just to clarify i am NOT saying i am thinking of running shoots this way at all .

it really intrigues me though why some people are rushing into the dubai shoot at £300 entry fee , harder targets than can ever be imagined over here , prizes only for 75 out of 1000 entries at a total cost of about £2000 the whole trip , guess it must be the sence of occasion , hot sunshine and the hospitallity that does it

As you say Steve, The attraction is the novelty, a once a year occasion. Would love to have gone, but already used all my holiday quota for the year, don't have unlimited holiday and shooting doesn't pay my mortgage, but would have enjoyed the different surroundings and the challenge. If there were 4 or 5 of these shoots a year, could the average shooter afford or be able to attend, would a 1,000 shooters sign-up. I wonder what the crossover of shooters is, take the top 6 shoots world-wide (by attendance) during the year and how many names feature at them all 10% or 20%, without the other 80% the shoots aren't viable. The majority of bigger sporting shoots have classes and I think that's what brings the entries in.
My feelings is that To run scratch shoots week in week out will just keep the top 2% interested in results, what about the other 98%. I've made great friends over the years battling against your class peers over the years in Fitasc and Sporting, would that have happened if only the top 10 of say a field of 120+ are 'measured'. I worked hard when I moved from 'Trophy' shoots, to improve my average over time, the class average cut-offs were useful goals and kept me coming back, ask Mr Stones.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Just shows you can't please all the shooters all the time.

Hey Mal.... You spend thousands going to shoot Helice internationally each year....no prize money and now no tin in the shed. That is a scratch shoot

 

[wylye]

I think you can do what you like with trap disciplines, apart from DTL they tend to be minor attendance's anyway and of very little interest to the majority.

Sporting is different and it is a big attraction for many hundreds of shooters all over the country week in week out. Play around with it at your peril. As Malcolm said, the current class system is an incentive for everyone in every class, not just the few in AA. 

 

[madds]

We have just run our NZ Open, it was run over a 200 target weekend and was also 1 of the 2 optional shoots for our NZ Teams for the World FITASC next year.

We ran 1st -7th and next year will run 1--10 PLUS have  Lewis Class running on the side.

$20 Lewis Class was included in the entry to look after everyone, and an optional $20 on each day if you were keen.

Worked well for us and some photos of the countryside are on our facebook page if anyone's interested:  

https://www.facebook.com/pages/South-Island-Sporting-Clay-Shooters-Inc/292728717559673?sk=photos_stream&ref=page_internal

CHEERS!! 

 

[Garwood]

Great scenery and weather by the look of it !

 

[ips]

Lewis class is an interesting format widely used in USA I believe.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I think you can do what you like with trap disciplines, apart from DTL they tend to be minor attendance's anyway and of very little interest to the majority.

Sporting is different and it is a big attraction for many hundreds of shooters all over the country week in week out. Play around with it at your peril. As Malcolm said, the current class system is an incentive for everyone in every class, not just the few in AA.

Wooooooooooo woooooooooo....how long is Halloween fright thread going to last.....

It is old farts like Wylye who like to keep you all in your box....

Wooooooooooo don't get out of your box and try something new.....

Wooooooooooo don't try trap.......woooooooooo.sporting is the only discipline.

Hahahaha.....ah hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Sorry Wylye......... Ah hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Peeps.....play whatever you want......but these new games are here to stay.....they bring excitement and some difference into the sport for a lot of shooters of all ability.

I can understand the 'OLD GUARD' won't like it.......but.......you know what........Fe - ck em.....they are the T-Rex's of the sport.

Ah hahahahahahahahahahahaha

(As for the insult to trap disciplines....not worth a response).

 

[DT10 MAL]

Just shows you can't please all the shooters all the time.

Hey Mal.... You spend thousands going to shoot Helice internationally each year....no prize money and now no tin in the shed. That is a scratch shoot

That is the case Nic, but in a discipline where the target variety and the weather gives everybody a chance. I choose to go in the prize fund but don't expect people to pay in if they don't want to. The wider question is will scratch shoots encourage shooters or not. I think classes encourage a broader range shooters with different skill levels in most disciplines.

Where do you draw the line? eliminate ladies, juniors and vets classes as well?

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Well that is the unanswerable question Mal :wink: as we know....because all people see shooting in so many ways.

My interest has always been playing of the games (which ever type they are) abroad.....and for that the only option is balls to the wall....scratch and categories. .....and it will always be that. There is no room for classes in international shooting and that is decreed by the various different world bodies.

I prefer that shooting as you feel fantastic when you achieve something. But that is just my opinion.

Everyone has to make their own 'free' choice.

I love the fact that clever people are coming into the world shooting arena with new games played in exciting new ways. These new games are open to all to play and enjoy as they choose. I like choice.

Of course the Old Guards will obviously feel threatened by this..........but it is here to stay.

My opinion is given as a shooter who loves the big games abroad.....I can also understand that not everyone wants that......but for me....everything I shoot in UK is just practise or fun of pulling the trigger (in any discipline). My passion is playing the big games....whether I am crap or not.

 

[wylye]

Just to remind you Nicola that I may be an old fart but I'm not as old a fart as you.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Just to remind you Nicola that I may be an old fart but I'm not as old a fart as you.

:laugh: of course sweetie.....hence I live life to the full.....before they close the box lid forever :laugh:

 

[maddmatt]

Steve, it's horses for courses, you won't please all the people all the time. Shooting is an entertainment business, people will enter what pleases them, if you want to spend £2k to shoot mental targets in the sand then why not? If you prefer to go to a shoot where you have to shoot in the high 80's just to B class then great, I am sure we all have our favourite grounds for various reasons.

I happen to like events that are different, your Gold Cup for example, a chance to get away in February to have a go at an extraordinary event, do I want to shoot mental targets every Sunday, probably not.

 

[Nimbusgb]

If you look at the scores in the club houses they more or less reflect the class cut off averages.

Example - AA in the 90's. C in the 60 - 70's. the others in between.

That shows a balanced shoot something for everyone.

Not in my experience, c class is won with 80 to 85 minimum, B looks to me to be about 90 then there's the 90 plusses club.

I started this game in January and was recently bumped into B class at my local club ( relatively easy targets and you get a midweek practice! ) but I'm still clawing my way up the official C class.

In 10 months I have spent north of £12k on 14000 shells and clays, two guns, entering 20 plus odd sporting, fitasc and compak shoots and driving all over the South/southeast uk and had a ball! I am fortunate to be able to afford to spend some money but the thought of donating money to someone with years of experience every week would stop me cold. I'd stick to club shooting.

The class system gives me the opportunity to get 'on the podium' against my peers, middle aged old farts with very little hope of ever beating GD at shooting even if only because I don't have 40 years left to gain the experience in!

The cream will rise to the top, in any sport, the Olympians and world champions always find their level but forcing everyone to compete against the 'supermen' robs every sport of the rank and file that make up the vast majority of club members, national body subscribers, tuition customers and purchasers of used and new hardware.

 

[ips]

Ssh some folks wives may be listening and have no idea what there men folk spend on shooting.

Middle age old darts you say ..... none taken

 

[ExSCA]

Great thread - despite a few attempts to derail... a really good read.

Well done everyone!

 

[smithers]

Steve how about trying a one of shoot £40 to enter for 100 targets, as a open say pay back £10 per entry top 10 or so & see what the entries are like ? See what people really want ? Do some of your special targets & call it the Dubia taster ? You went last year so you have a good idea & with over 400 from uk going it would be a good test ??? Not registered though and say only top 20 scores shown outside of the shoot ????

 

[Nimbusgb]

Steve how about trying a one of shoot £40 to enter for 100 targets, as a open say pay back £10 per entry top 10 or so & see what the entries are like ? See what people really want ? Do some of your special targets & call it the Dubia taster ? You went last year so you have a good idea & with over 400 from uk going it would be a good test ??? Not registered though and say only top 20 scores shown outside of the shoot ????

Hmm, not a fair trial! I'd give it a go just on the basis that I could see what all these big girls blouses are talking about when they get back! A 'Dubai taster' would draw in a good crowd I think. All the fun of the fair with very little outlay and I'd be doing it to see 100 challenging sim pairs not for the competition itself.

 

[Steve Lovatt]

Here we go folks a date for your diaries

Saturday 20th December at Windrush shooting ground

100 open Dubai range style targets with some Simo pairs chucked in for good measure entries open at 10 am last entry 2.30 pm

Who's playing ????? Don't be scared they are all hit table