Shooting Technique

[Salopian]

I cannot remember if I have raised this subject before, hence the question.

When you call and move for a target, what do you see? What is your technique?

One of the reasons for asking is there is often heated debate on American forums about total focus on the clay, you never ever look at the barrels, you are not aware of the muzzles, you don't see lead off the end of your barrels, you don't see lead out at the target because you never see your muzzles or the gap. You only see the target or more precisely the front edge of the target or even more precisely the rings or dimples on the clay surface ( remember Yanks are prone to exaggeration).

So think about it before you answer, " What do you see"?

Let me talk you through a shot, you know where you are going to break it, BREAK POINT, you know where your gun hold will be HOLD POINT, you know the visual pick up point of the target and you know it's flight line.

Now do you just look at the visual pickup point, watch the clay on its line concentrate hard on the clay and never seeing the gun it glides to the  break point and smashes the clay. 

 I would be interested to know how many of you see the barrels, the rib, the muzzle and if you relate any of them to the clay and sight picture.

It may sound perfect to you or it may sound crazy, opinions please 

Also factor in both eyes open or squint one, or mount with one eye closed and you will see how heated it can get .

 

[Will Hewland]

Anybody (who can hit clays) who says they don't know where the gun is is lying. Or shooting very dull targets requiring little or no leeed..

 

[Chris B]

Depends on the type of clay, fast quartering, eyes on clay only, shoot on instinct. But a long slow crosser, I tend to measure the gap between muzzle and clay, and thats where it all goes wrong. :slow:

 

[Steve Lovatt]

I'm always aware of where my barrel is from calling pull through to seeing a ball of dust or the clay flying on

I once tried shooting without a bead on and all hell was let loose I couldn't hit anything

My biggest problem is on hanging clays when the temptation to look at a reference point on the barrell tends to take over

 

[Growl]

Very much depends on the target for me I think, if it is up close and personal (reaction shooting) then I will be focusing on the clay, when there is some time to think then I would probably be lying if I said I was 100% on the clay, the more time I have the more I will tend to take a sneaky peek at what my barrels are doing, are they really where I think they are??? sometimes on a stalling clay I will as you mention 'squint' slightly and put my shot where the clay will run into it - bloody hell this is hard to explain, bad enough when you are on the stand! I may even rifle the shot to place my pattern where the clay will be when it arrives (not sure if that makes sense) I sort of calculate (in my dreams probably) where the 'stall' point of the clay will be, then just (very small just) before It arrives I squeeze the trigger and place my shot pattern in its path - this only works on a readable stalling bird, I am by no means a good shot but this works for me on this type of bird! any other clay to me is a mixture of the two styles, fast n close is all target focus, slow and long - sneaky peek (with the odd squint scenario) in between is a sliding scale between the two methods.

At least that is what I think I'm doing - sometimes I'm only half awake and some other portion of my sub conscious takes control. am I going mad???

 

[bonzodogdoodaband]

You need to be aware of where the barrels are in relation to the clay to be able to repeat the same shot, or alter it depending if you hit it. only ever look at the clay though.

 

[Jonny English]

Pick out prefered break point.

Pick out landmark where clay will appear from

Place muzzles roughly half way between the two, this varies a little depending on speed angle and distance of the target.

Call for bird and pick it up at landmark with both eyes open when it first appears.

Follow clay with eyes untill it reaches where my muzzles are roughly

Start to swing gun as it reaches the muzzles

Move in front of clay

Mount gun

Swing some more in front

Look at patch of air in front of clay

Squeeze trigger

Hopefully see the clay break in peripheral vision

Shot with both eyes open at all times, only see muzzles when gun is out the shoulder, soon as its mounted the barrels disappear.

 

[Robo]

My main focus is on the clay but I'm always aware of where my barrels are ... it often goes wrong if I focus on the barrel and not the target ( if that makes sense ? ) I try to work out gun hold and look back for the target from there . Once target is released I track with my vision while bringing the gun up .
I shoot with both eyes open and gun down for everything , the only change I ever make is my hold on the fore end for certain targets.
I'm only a C class shot so this could all be totally wrong of course

 

[paul b]

i start with the barrels at the pick up point then when i see the clay the gun moves through it and pull the trigger.on very fast stuff i see no lead and stalling things i see a measured gap between end of gun and clay,on big distance targets i see a gap but not measured.Have a look a george digweed on you tube with the barrel cam and you will see its all about how you shwing that thing.

 

[teepee1234]

Decide kill zone and plant feet accordingly.  Wind back to pick up point, look back to the point the bird first comes into sight, mentally cross fingers, call "Puuuuuull".

I'm always aware of the muzzle, and therefore also the gap between muzzle and target, even though the focus is on the clay (not sure how you can't be aware of your barrels?)

My brain often deserts me, which sets my default method to maintained leeed, which (IMHO) is the work of the devil, so I try to work out how to shoot the target with swing through - hold point closer to the trap, or allow the target to fly past the barrels before moving - obviously this varies depending on the distance/speed/type of target.

Keep both eyes open to pick up the target, then once acquired, close left eye (and before all the advice about eyes, please know that my left eye essentially only exists to retain the symmetry of my face...!).   

Then it's a case of being aware of the dust, or a mental kick in the arse.

If all else fails, close both eyes and pray.

 

[Salopian]

Thank you all for the replies.

See how the feedback alters slightly ?

It is essential we differentiate between focus and vision, agreed your focus needs to be fully on the task in hand  and will ultimately be totally on breaking the clay, but it will move from focussing on preparing for the shot right through to taking the shot. But we are talking about mental focus AND visual focus.

Vision will or should always be on the target , but obviously peripheral vision will be all embracing, taking in scenery, target flight line, muzzle start point, correct gun hold , swing and mount and moments before the shot is taken I am adamant that we all see the muzzle / barrel -target relationship because if we never did how would we know how to repeat a successful shot or improve on a miss?

Keep the feedback coming as it really is an interesting subject, already we have had a few who have replied they never see the muzzle or the barrel , so I will ask again.

" Are you sure?"

 

[Hamster]

Those who shoot without a bead still have to use the rib as a reference point so that is no proof that they're unaware of the barrels. I personally look at the clay first and foremost initially, but I am quite certain that at times once the line has been found you no longer need hard target focus, seeing the required lead may well be more important on certain occasions. When shooting droppers I often adjust my rib picture by consciously taking my eye off the clay for a split second. 

I can also recall spot shooting both rabbits and high going aways from behind without absolute target focus, you can break short window rabbits by having the barrels and eyes pointing at a certain place and fire as the rabbit comes into your peripheral vision.

 

[Madmillie]

Glad someone started this thread as I was discussing the very same topic with a mate yesterday. I have been beating myself up for a while now and blaming looking at the barrels for misses. Try as I may, and as hard as I focus on the clay, my little brain has to consciously see a picture of bird, barrel, gap before it feels the urge to pull the trigger. This is particularly the case on long slow moving crossers and diminishes the faster and closer the targets become.

Steve

 

[maddmatt]

Good question, and the replies so far highlight just how individual shooting is. Steve can't shoot without a bead, I can't shoot WITH a bead. I am always aware of my barrels and the rib in relation to the clay, although I try not to reference the rib/barrels instead focussing on the clay. I can't see how anyone can shoot clays of any description without being aware of the barrels/rib/bead etc

 

[T.C.]

I would agree that one needs to differentiate between visual focus point ie. central vision (which is a very small amount of what you see) and peripheral vision.

On crossers I focus on the target but I can see the barrel clearly . I need to know where the barrel is so I can set up the correct sight picture.I am aware of the barrel and the front sight but as it is in my peripheral vision the detail is lacking.As my focus is on the clay ie that is where my eye is focused in terms of distance, the gun is slightly out of focus. The effect is magnified in poor light and reduced in bright light due to the degree of pupil dilation (depth of field).

I find that looking at the barrel while shooting a crosser ofter produces what is often termed "quartz clock movement" ie. the gun repeatedly slows and speeds up. When you look at the barrel during the swing there is a strong tendency to stop the gun. Looking at the barrel while shooting DTL type targets makes you slow to shoot resulting in a slow shot at a distant target often with a dead gun .

 

[squimp]

I shoot a fairly deliberate style, mounting the gun onto or just behind the target (big loopers are the only birds where I mount in front). Up till that point my eyes are focused solely on the clay/bird.

From that point on I'm well aware of the barrels in my peripheral vision. I 'manufacture' what I think is the appropriate lead and then pull the trigger. 

Every now and again I try and shoot  fast crossers relying purely on hand eye coordination (making a big effort to totally 'ignore' the barrels) and I nearly always miss.  If i try and shorten my swing, that tends to result in a miss too.

 

[Will Hewland]

I think the question (apologies Salopian if I am treading on your toes) has to be `Do you look back at the gun once the target is in the air`; because surely every experienced shooter MUST be looking hard into the distance waiting to spot the clay when it first appears. Nobody is staring at a rib calling Pull surely? So, it is all about do you SHIFT your focus back to the barrel. And the next question is, is this a bad thing. (I think most feel it is).

I am sure our American brethren can expand on this topic, making War and Peace look like a note for the milkman.. Personally I think shooting theory needs to come in basic nuggets. A head full of theory cant be good for your focus when you shoot..

 

[Clanchief]

As you say Clever my bead comes into a soft focus(periphery)but only to align with the bird, and then focus changes back to sharply on clay once the speed and line have been determined. I did have a bad habit of looking back to bead and then back to clay, wrong oh so wrong. You need to learn to soft focus your eyes back to bead, even having a conscious thought about the bead whilst staring at the clay will make your brain do the work, without you having to shift your gaze causing misses.

How many times have you shot a bird and the brain takes over and you have no idea what the leed etc.

 

[T.C.]

Unfortunately for shooters your eye can focus in much more quickly than focusing out. This means that it is quick and easy to go from clay to gun but slow to go from gun to clay.