May i suggest a shock leader next timeOfffffffffffffffffffttttttttttttttttttttttttttt that's the f'n line broken... wait all afternoon then a whopper comes by and snaps you off.
Proper Cartridge
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Proper cartridge Co is all the proof you need that the home brew clan are scratching one another's backsides. Here's what by any stretch of imagination a small, pretty much one man show which presumably can in no way compete with the buying power of the big boys when it comes to components and yet still manages to be significantly cheaper !
If an effective supply chain could be figured out for this company there is no reason it wouldn't become a very common sight.
ps. I have used their 28g clay loads and they were excellent.
If an effective supply chain could be figured out for this company there is no reason it wouldn't become a very common sight.
ps. I have used their 28g clay loads and they were excellent.
What are you going to pay for a thou of those Hammy? There are lots of different makes of cartridge available down here in the €160-170 bracket which I put right in the budget price. I moved form Clever T2 which is not exactly a budget cartridge @ €200/thou to Jocker competition at €168 and there is another cheaper Jocker at €160 but they are good cartridges and any misses are not down to the cartridges.
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For competition purposes how many cartridges must a company sell per year to not be classed as a home load ?
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A very good question?
Both Gamebore and Express started life as homeloaders who realised that they could possibly do a better job than commercially available cartridges .
RIP Geoff Dales .
Cartridges will always cost what we the consumer can afford, if we tell a few manufacturers or brands to 'do one', possibly the prices will drop back to reality.
I do think that 30p to 40p each for Game cartridges is rather rude.
Both Gamebore and Express started life as homeloaders who realised that they could possibly do a better job than commercially available cartridges .
RIP Geoff Dales .
Cartridges will always cost what we the consumer can afford, if we tell a few manufacturers or brands to 'do one', possibly the prices will drop back to reality.
I do think that 30p to 40p each for Game cartridges is rather rude.
We can't get these anywhere really, they seem to be loaded and supplied pretty much to order as the owner seems to have hit a brick wall as far as a supply chain and finding big distributors goes ! <_< Reading posts on PigeonWatch I believe he charges around the £180 mark for clay as well as the lesser game loads which is cheap because he uses the same components.
I'd have thought all loads intended for sale would have to pass proof etc, so anything on the open market is no longer home load, "home brew" is a term I've coined to avoid having to use (disgusting gangsters fixing prices through running a discreet cartel, partly through pressuring distributors/suppliers and partly through constantly moaning when raw materials go up but never reacting when they they drop :lol:
h34r: ,) home brew is polite society in other words.
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Hammy to be honest I have always thought that there is a cartridge cartel. I have been mystified at the difference in the costs of cartridges in France compared to back in the UK. I can use as an example RIO and Clever cartridges both of which I can buy much cheaper down here than you can get them in the UK... but none of the two are made in France! People have used transport cost as a reason but it just does not stack up. Yes transport will add to the cost but not as much as €40 per thousand! To add to the whole lash up cartridges are even cheaper in Spain. It will be interesting to see what happens post Brexit . One other thing I find very strange is you never see British made cartridges on sale here in France there has to be some reason for that and it is not because there is no market for them as I have been asked about how to get them.
Skeetfreak
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Your exactly right but i guess it depends on the courier used and their charge rates.
The company i use can ship me a 1200kg pallet for about £50 - that is equivalent to about 25,000 x 28gram 12g cartridges on a pallet.
At that rate it adds about £2 per thousand to the price but that is only shipping within the UK.
International shipping will obviously be much more and the various customs charges and taxes etc will need to go on top.
Now to investigate the cost of reloading...
I am fortunate in that in NSSA skeet you are allowed to use home loads in competition (providing you follow the load guidelines) so have loaded at home (only .410). There is a multi-tude of components you can buy to vary the price of the end product. I looked to produce a specific cartridge as close to factory as possible (Remington STS .410 in 9 shot) - i could do it for about this...
Wad - £28 per 500 (5.6 p per cartridge)
Shot - £70 per 25kg (4.1p per cartridge)
Powder - £80 per kilo (6.2p per cartridge)
Case - Reload factory bought between 5 and 10 times
This ended up at about 15.9p per cartridge + the case, machine cost, labour and of course at the very small volumes bought at. This will seem high but you need to compare it to the cartridge i was replicating - over here in the UK (IF you can find them) will cost you around £8-900 a thousand!! In the USA this shell was $125 per 250.
So to calculate out the cost of the cases £900 / 1000 = 9p / 5 uses (minimum) = 1.8p per case + 15.9p = 17.7p per load or £177 per thousand (assuming no failed loads) for a premium .410 cartridge.
Machine cost would be anywhere between £200 and £700 depending
Labour - i am SLOW loading as quality was paramount so did about 50ph
I suspect all of a sudden you feel that the cartridges you buy are good value compared to this.......
People are exactly right in order to sell cartridges you need them proofing - i did this anyway for peace of mind to ensure i was making a solid reliable cartridge. Fortunately a friend could get this done for me in a test gun so cost me nothing.
Skeetfreak
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- Oct 23, 2012
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- 428
Doh knew it did not look right but could not figure out why....... out now so cannot be precise but add about 3.5p per load.
The no. 1 thing affecting and deciding prices for everything including shells is Supply & Demand, literally nothing else comes close. Our treasured Home brew boyz can shift the volume they're geared up to produce at a high enough price HERE to make enough profit not to have to explore outside markets too vigorously.
If you cast your mind back a few years to the new car cartels operating here in blighty you'll remember that eventually the people had had enough and all sorts of import companies sprang up who specialised in importing identical cars from Europe which including any due taxes still ended up saving the end user thousands compared to the dealership on ones own doorstep. I recall undercover cameras catching Renault management literally admitting they were squeezing the UK dry simply because they could, i.e, we just aren't a militant and assertive enough bunch compared to many other markets. It can take years before someone eventually snaps and sticks the proverbial at the establishment.
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