New FITASC Sporting rules for 2014

[lead belly]

My take on this for what its worth is this.Red and yellow cards what a load of sh*te. Why not stick to how they used to do it, and just mark on your card if you have a warning instead of having all these refs holding cards in the air like a set of traffic lights. As regards the targets bearing any resemblance to game shooting those days are long gone. When did u see anything flying like an upside down battue (except maybe a kangaroo) One minute they want to bring all the targets in to less than forty yards to make them easier, now they they don't want to tell u what they are, wtf is that all about. To me Fitasc should be the F1 for sporting type shooting, and the targets should be entertaining and make you think. You should have the odd 60 yarder thrown in because when you connect with one, wow its nearly as good as sex.In fact now i`m a veteran its probably better.

 

[Steve Lovatt]

If they put on good targets they would not have to make it harder by not telling you what it is , fact

If its supposed to represent game shooting , how many high driven was there at the European and world s champs , my guess is not a lot

As I have said loads of time before compak for high scores and fitasc sporting for people who enjoy a challenge

 

[wynno]

Gents, read the first post.  Yellow and red cards will only be used at international events. In the UK that means the GB open. All the other local ,national ,regional shoots you will have the ref issue a VERBAL warning.

The idea about banning shooting the pieces is somewhat crazy, I know of a lot of shooters might not have seen a chip come off on the first shot the then proceed to give it a second and smash it completely.

So would I give a warning to that shooter ,err let me think about that......Of course not

 

[maddmatt]

This reminds me of when they banned 36gm & 32gm loads, I heard it all, you will never hit those targets, you might as well shoot skeet, thats the end of FITASC it won't survive blah blah blah

The yellow and red cards are being introduced to combat language barriers, apparently not everyone speaks english, fecks know why as I can manage it but there you go, so to ensure every body understands whats going on they introduced the card system. Shooting bits should be discouraged as over a 4 day shoot with 1500 shooters it *could* slow things down a bit, I think they should leave this one alone.

The contentious issue is whether you are told what the target is or not, personally I do not think you should be told, part of shooting should be your ability to recognise what you are shooting at, whether that is a mini, midi, standard, rocket or battues. I have in fact been at shoots where the menus were incorrect, and had the wrong target types on them, didn't effect one shooter in the squad, a few puzzled looks but we all got and shot what was flying.

 

[madds]

I have copied these ,I think really interesting comments, from a ground owner and competitive shooters point of view, from another web site, on this subject.

I have no issue with the yellow card, red card system. Hopefully, this practice will help when there is a language barrier involved. And, hopefully, the referees will feel empowered to penalize shooters for boorish behavior as well.

As for Number 2, where the targets are not identified. In practice, my opinion is that this practice causes shooters to look at more show birds in an attempt to determine what the target actually is. This is a direct cost to the shooting range, and causes the parcours to run slowly, as it takes time to look at the birds more than once. I also recognize that the Americans are famous for wanting to see show targets over and over, but this rule has the effect of making more shooters follow that trend of viewing too many show birds. I have had many, many shooters tell me that they oppose this rule, and I personally oppose it as well.

To test this out: we had three major shoots at MHHC this year. In the first one, I used the new menu designations, where the targets were only designated by letter without any description of the type of target (over eight old style layouts). The average layout took 49 minutes to complete. In the second event, I used the old system of menus, where I listed the type of targets. The average time to shoot each layout was 43 minutes. With this knowledge in hand, realizing that it took approximately 15% more time to shoot with the new menu concept - I will bet you know how I ran the third event.

As for the final proposal - where shooters can be penalized for shooting at chips of targets. If the goal here is to create controversy - this rule hits it straight on the head! I can just see this scenario playing over and over: Shooter attempts the target, breaks a small piece from the target (which the shooter doesn't see) and the shooter shoots again. The referee says "broken on the first shot, but because we have this new rule, you lose the target anyway". This might be the worst proposal I can imagine. I believe the referees could strongly recommend that shooters do not shoot birds that are clearly broken. But, frankly, if the targets are properly set with due regard given for shot fall issues - I see absolutely no reason to implement this rule. Unless of course, the goal is to create controversy - this rule is then a clear winner. Please note that I am being sarcastic with that comment. To sum up my opinion on this proposed rule: It is ridiculous, unnecessary, will cause controversy, and should not be implemented.

But, as a wise man once noted, opinions are like belly buttons. Everyone has one, but not everyone wants to see mine.

Best regards,

Randy W. Travalia

 

[no.1topdog]

Topdug u not happy shooting 100 straight at skeet & trap?i am,not done it many times.how about u?.

Hi Elvis,

You're right, I'm not happy shooting 100's at skeet & DTL. That's why I shoot sporting. To be honest if I can shoot upwards of 90% sraight off, with no practice, then I'm not learning anything apart from concentration skills.

You're right again, I have never shot 100 straight at Skeet or DTL, but the last time I shot Skeet, 15 years ago I did 50 straight with my 16 bore side by side, thought that was good enough, done that, but it was only practice for close sporting targets. And before you have a go at me about my sporting scores, the highest I have ever shot in registered competition is 91, so I am never going to be another Digweed, but if a mediocre sporting shooter can do 50 straight at skeet, what's the problem?

As for DTL, I personally find it extremely monotonous and can't wait for it to finish, (and I haven't shot that for over 20 years). Again, that's why I shoot Sporting with it's endless variety.

I don't mind shooting a 75 if AAA class shooters are shooting 81's to win, and an 85 for me with a winning score of 95 is a good day out. I don't want to be Digweed because I know my limitations. I just haven't got it in me anymore.

I just shoot purely for pleasure, with only my own standards to live up to. And I really enjoy it!

Each to their own I say, and I can admire anyone who shoots their 100's, its just not for me.

Shoot straight, be happy, just don't leave the building too soon to enjoy yourself Elvis.  :nyam:

 

[maddmatt]

Show targets are limited by referee discretion, so after seeing the target twice the ref could refuse to show it again and you cannot argue with the ref because you will be breaking FITASC rules concerning Referee decisions.

 

[Steve Lovatt]

show targets aint an issue for me , but because we ( or me ) still put on " good " targets i think it is imperative shooters know what they are shooting at , example british grand prix this year on sat peg 2  an incoming crosser ,a rabbit clay that looked identical to a standard ,caused no end of grief shooters moaning etc etc if it had said rabbit on menu alot more would have been hit , i can also make a battue for instance look identical to a standard the list goes on and on ,why make it harder ?????

i shall still print on menus what you are shooting and keep target quality the same as always ,unless we are on a contract t bictsf 

steve

 

[maddmatt]

Steve, I have to ask why you would do that, the rules are the rules and disregarding them may help shooters on that particular day but do them any favours when they go to a shoot that is using the new menu system. Bit like going to a fitasc shoot where everything is 55 yards out, then you go to the Europeans and its all quick angles and round your ears. For years we have adopted an english flavour when it comes to the rules, if we know better why are we still allowing FITASC Paris to rule the roost? Why not pull away from them and start our own organisation? If we want to play in their playground we have to play by their rules.

Or is it simpler then this...

 

[Steve Lovatt]

Matt what is wrong in helping shooters , I listen to my customers and they want good targets and they want to know what they are shooting at . I see your point about abroad totally but a lot of my customers do not go and enjoy fitasc over here so why alienate them , and spoil their day out by beating them with not knowing what's what , I know exactly where it's all going , it all points towards " you have to bring things closer " well sorry but don't agree , and if its suppose to simulate game shooting I tend to replicate the sport in Devon and Wales rather than Cambridge and Essex , of course just my thoughts and enough said by me on it

 

[Banger]

So what happens on these 50 target a day big shoots, sooner or later through knowing trap loaders or setters as the shoot goes on folks will know what targets are what,

giving a disadvantage to those who shot first on tougher layouts.

Only shoot it now and again but really enjoy it. It begs the question why fix it when its perfectly ok?

 

[Clynt]

So what happens on these 50 target a day big shoots, sooner or later through knowing trap loaders or setters as the shoot goes on folks will know what targets are what,

giving a disadvantage to those who shot first on tougher layouts.

Only shoot it now and again but really enjoy it. It begs the question why fix it when its perfectly ok?

far to logical m8 !!!!!

 

[maddmatt]

Matt what is wrong in helping shooters , I listen to my customers and they want good targets and they want to know what they are shooting at . I see your point about abroad totally but a lot of my customers do not go and enjoy fitasc over here so why alienate them , and spoil their day out by beating them with not knowing what's what , I know exactly where it's all going , it all points towards " you have to bring things closer " well sorry but don't agree , and if its suppose to simulate game shooting I tend to replicate the sport in Devon and Wales rather than Cambridge and Essex , of course just my thoughts and enough said by me on it

It definitely won't get closer, thats why they introduced compak, as for helping shooters, well I see your point from a business owner who runs a business to provide customer satisfaction, BUT, how much harder do you honestly think it makes? And if the firasc shooters who don't go abroad enter the GP here they will run in to the same issue.

I think its good to get your prespective Steve, not too many ground owners on here so its always an interesting conversation when one of you join in. I think time will tell on this one, personally I don't see it causing any issues.

 

[K80 TCG]

I was thinking of having a go at fitasc or parcours or what ever they call it.
After reading this not so sure!

Foot fault what's all that about, is there anywhere where I can find the new rules.

 

[Steve Lovatt]

Don't be put off by thinking there are too many rules , all you need to do is stand in the hoop , keep your gun down below your fitasc line or tape and touching your body , don't mount the gun until you see the clay ( not the sound of trap going off ) , and then guess what type of clay you are shooting at and enjoy it , the ref will do the rest

 

[Jeremy Baker]

I was thinking of having a go at fitasc or parcours or what ever they call it.
After reading this not so sure!

Foot fault what's all that about, is there anywhere where I can find the new rules.

Get out there and give it a go.
Soon be second nature to you.
It's a great format.


Sent from my mobile that's my excuse for typos and errors.

 

[teepee1234]

@K80 TCG

As Jem said, it's a great discipline.  Few of us on a 10.30 squad at Southdown, 19th October.  If you fancy it, give Shaun a ping and book on.  Come and have some fun!!  :hunter:

 

[Jaykaysea]

I am thinking of doing a FITASC training day, all a bit complicated having never done it but looks a bit addictive.

One question though...why is it so much more expensive than Sporting? Sure there will be a simple explanation

 

[ELVIS]

I,m with big belly? allway leave the building happy?Well shot Steve c ya soon.

 

[maddmatt]

I am thinking of doing a FITASC training day, all a bit complicated having never done it but looks a bit addictive.

One question though...why is it so much more expensive than Sporting? Sure there will be a simple explanation

Steve, care to step in on this one...?