Guns with adjustable combs
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Irishgunner
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I would agree use adjustable comb to get the right sight picture, it's a scatter gun not a rifle, if the sight picture looks right the poi won't be far off, over thinking don't lead to more broken clays, i don't shoot adjustable comb myself but I think there great an give enough movement to get a good fit for most people
Charlie,
If you enter a thread then you have to be prepared to argue a point, arguing needn't be a negative, it's people talking about their perceptions, beliefs and experiences and without it I would not have gained from others knowledge. For what it's worth I would say your chokes are way too tight if they only open out to 6" at Low 7 kill distance, that would hold most people back.
In my experience combs CAN make a POI difference particularly when coupled to adjustable rib guns but in ordinary set ups I've found what little difference they may make to raising or lowering POI is almost irrelevant because you shoot the gun and then you get used to it, but how it sits in your vision and how it recoils is where the greatest gains come from.
I was thinking about another thread a week or so ago on the general form about this very topic. My view then was that raising the comb does not necessarily raise POI but it does raise the eye over the rib. My point was that the sight picture will change and because of this you , after a few shots, factor the change in the guns geometry. In effect what I am saying is the guns POI only changes if you continue to shoot it as you did before you changed the position of the comb. That is why I said I can use a adjustable comb to change the sight picture. If raise the comb the gun will shoot higher if I don't adjust my shooting but that was the reason I did it was to get that effect ie. see more of the target when taking the shot... I have changed my sight picture.
I know I am probably talking rot but here goes anyway. I just don't get idea the POI/A changing when raising or lowering the comb. If I mount my gun the same way every time on the same part of my shoulder then all that is changing is the position of my eye over the rib, the gun still is pointing in exactly the same place, what I see has changed not where the gun is pointing. Now I say this from the point of a gun mounted before shooting so I do know that the gun hits the same spot on my shoulder and then I bring my head down onto the comb. Another very important thing from my point of view anyway is you do not aim a shotgun, you point it at a region of sky hoping to intercept the flying object. To hit the target you use eyes and awareness of space and senses to as it were calculate / estimate where this area is you want to shoot in order to do it then shoot at that bit of space. If you give the same gun to two different people and ask them to hit a target they will, assuming they are of different stature , both point the gun differently to hit the target ... but that is nothing to do with the gun it is the same. In other words a shotgun does not have a POI/A people make it do what it does.
Offt there is a pile to chew on ... fire away!
I know I am probably talking rot but here goes anyway. I just don't get idea the POI/A changing when raising or lowering the comb. If I mount my gun the same way every time on the same part of my shoulder then all that is changing is the position of my eye over the rib, the gun still is pointing in exactly the same place, what I see has changed not where the gun is pointing. Now I say this from the point of a gun mounted before shooting so I do know that the gun hits the same spot on my shoulder and then I bring my head down onto the comb. Another very important thing from my point of view anyway is you do not aim a shotgun, you point it at a region of sky hoping to intercept the flying object. To hit the target you use eyes and awareness of space and senses to as it were calculate / estimate where this area is you want to shoot in order to do it then shoot at that bit of space. If you give the same gun to two different people and ask them to hit a target they will, assuming they are of different stature , both point the gun differently to hit the target ... but that is nothing to do with the gun it is the same. In other words a shotgun does not have a POI/A people make it do what it does.
Offt there is a pile to chew on ... fire away!
To my knowledge the first person to openly say comb raising does not necessarily raise POI was Alan Rhone when he answered a letter in Sporting Gun some years ago and it reinforced what I had begun to find was the case. I resisted the temptation of posting on another thread where people were talking about pitch angles altering / raising POI as well. Can it ? Yes. Does it make a detectable difference to things ? No.
You could argue that if you sat a gun's pad on a flat wall and shot it, then inserted washers altering the pitch and shot it again, you should see a minute difference in POI, BUT in reality guns don't sit flat in our shoulder pockets and coupled to the fact we are talking about scatter guns here not MOA sniper rifles, any changes would be almost immaterial. No gunsmith would offer changes in pitch to affect POI changes, it's real use remains that of comfort.
We have been told adjustable combs are there to help us raise POI, but in practice it is not as reliable a tool as say adjustable ribs are. If you want a gun that shoots high buy one built that way from the ground up because it won't feel strange in your shoulder then.
You could argue that if you sat a gun's pad on a flat wall and shot it, then inserted washers altering the pitch and shot it again, you should see a minute difference in POI, BUT in reality guns don't sit flat in our shoulder pockets and coupled to the fact we are talking about scatter guns here not MOA sniper rifles, any changes would be almost immaterial. No gunsmith would offer changes in pitch to affect POI changes, it's real use remains that of comfort.
We have been told adjustable combs are there to help us raise POI, but in practice it is not as reliable a tool as say adjustable ribs are. If you want a gun that shoots high buy one built that way from the ground up because it won't feel strange in your shoulder then.
The brain is a strange thing and not always on your side, a high comb sigh picture can make you think the gun is going to shoot high so you compensate and ride targets underneath which is of course where you'll miss ! :lol: :lol:
So we end up having the complete opposite affect to what's expected ! Been there done that, till I learned to accept my gun looks like a runway but shoots flat.
So we end up having the complete opposite affect to what's expected ! Been there done that, till I learned to accept my gun looks like a runway but shoots flat.
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Oh Charles......it is definitely Hogwarts here toooooooo !!!!!....as you can see from many of the posts that people passionately put up ....with great detail in them (most of it supposition with pseudo scientific bollocx attached wishing you to see their point of view :laugh:
Oh how I giggle and giggle .......but I stop posting any correction now.....(don't want to agitate the gremlins to much....one can only stand so much laughter in a day).
Aside to my agreement with Charlie...
My only input in this is that I love adj combs......and would not have a competition gun without one.....
(but then I am a girly.....we like to change our minds a lot.....or so I have been told...... That and something about having the correct foot shape to get closer under the kitchen sink????? :laugh: ...... 'That' man obviously did not know what a handmade kitchen looked like.... Ah hahahahahahahahahahahaha ...... )
(Pssssssst Girls........ Ninja mode..!
I find the 'oh really, how interesting' answer works well in that situation. )
"but I stop posting any correction now"
Why? I like and have missed your input. You speak from an experienced point of view most on here don't have! If someone not accepting your take on something offends you ignore that particular post I am sure many others reading may agree. Don't hoard all that knowledge away share but don't expect to believe that people regard your posts as the definitive on the subject some people will always have their on take on a subject and stick to it however misguided it may be...... some people still insist the world is in fact flat... some people, mostly Americans, actually believe we, the human race, were created by some entity or other... they are wrong but you try to tell them... they won't believe you
Why? I like and have missed your input. You speak from an experienced point of view most on here don't have! If someone not accepting your take on something offends you ignore that particular post I am sure many others reading may agree. Don't hoard all that knowledge away share but don't expect to believe that people regard your posts as the definitive on the subject some people will always have their on take on a subject and stick to it however misguided it may be...... some people still insist the world is in fact flat... some people, mostly Americans, actually believe we, the human race, were created by some entity or other... they are wrong but you try to tell them... they won't believe you
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Haha....I do not get offended, (you really have to understand my sense of humour) because I do not care if people take my opinion or not....I only post information that has worked for me....people do with it what they want.
Several just get all their feathers flustered...during threads.....which makes it even funnier.
Forums are great fun....hero to zero in one day and back.....if you sussout the characters.
They are great social experimentation places.....have you not noticed that yet..?
As for the off forum suppliers gambling .......one suppliers grumps is another suppliers glee.....how many love froglube versus clenzoil versus chip fat oil...... :laugh:
Psst forgot to answer your question.....(ninja mode.....because I cannot be arsed on a lot of it).
Several just get all their feathers flustered...during threads.....which makes it even funnier.
Forums are great fun....hero to zero in one day and back.....if you sussout the characters.
They are great social experimentation places.....have you not noticed that yet..?
As for the off forum suppliers gambling .......one suppliers grumps is another suppliers glee.....how many love froglube versus clenzoil versus chip fat oil...... :laugh:
Psst forgot to answer your question.....(ninja mode.....because I cannot be arsed on a lot of it).
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You know Nic I try not to characterise people on the forum by their posts. I say I try not to but sometimes I fail and can adopt an entirely different idea of a character, who it turns out is nothing like what I have assumed them to be! I think, possibly wrongly, that people away from a computer keyboard are entirely different to what you get online. I certainly know that when you talk in a room with someone the element of eye contact tells more about that person than can perceived notions in an online forum chat or a teleconference.
Anyway that's bye the bye what is required is good input to a debate .. that does not mean it has to be correct... its an opinion , an idea or concept that provokes thought and of course thoughts can then change one's point of view later on reflection. That's the thing about forums there is very rarely a situation where a person takes the time after reflecting on a particular debate and having changed their point of view gets back to the others and says " you know I have changed my mind about ..... you were right what you said makes much more sense" but this happen all the time after normal day to day discussions .
Anyway that's bye the bye what is required is good input to a debate .. that does not mean it has to be correct... its an opinion , an idea or concept that provokes thought and of course thoughts can then change one's point of view later on reflection. That's the thing about forums there is very rarely a situation where a person takes the time after reflecting on a particular debate and having changed their point of view gets back to the others and says " you know I have changed my mind about ..... you were right what you said makes much more sense" but this happen all the time after normal day to day discussions .
How very true, but when all is said and done you need that useful input in the first place, you know, something of substance, instead of all this.................I can only be bothered to laughatyall fairy talk.
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Meow...!!
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Bwaaah
ips
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once again I entirely agree with my learned friend. I have eluded to the the same misconception re poi with high ribs, you percieve that it will shoot high of course some do such as the dt10x but that is because it was meant to and has a tapered rib. Generally a high comb on a flat rib does indeed give one the perception that it will shoot high but if you dont use the bead as an aiming tool the poi has effectively remaineed the same but your view above the rib has altered. After a lot and I mean a lot of testing and faffing with comb height my conclusion for me personaly was the flatter the better at least on a trap gun which will always shoot high ish poi even if you see no rib.. I see no benefit with having to shoot under a flat target in order to hit it I much prefer to have to push through the target but of course we are all different and what we think we see and do is not the same as what other people think they do or see. So its flat as possible and no adjustable comb for me.
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I agree Ips .the flatter the better for me too.
Ian you have summed it up perfectly everyone is, to some degree, different in their approach to shooting the same trap target rising and going away. You for example, if my interpretation is correct, would get on fine shooting a sporter at a trap shoot I on the other hand would not like it at all I would be shooting targets I could not see. I need a trap gun set up to have a good view over the rib. I dare say there is a way of shouldering a flat shooting gun to shoot trap but its not for me, I assume the trick is gun speed and perhaps that is something I have really still to learn properly? Anyway I will continue to try my best to get a consistent result with what little I know in the absence of on hand pro coaching.
ips
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"Gun speed"
John, this is the key factor imo for trap. Unless you shoot like a sporter with maintained lead or any other weird technique (which sure as hell wil never work succesfully for trap) then gun speed is required in order to give lead. I like to refer to it as pushing through the target as that is how I personaly percieve it others will explain it in other way but the effect is the same the speed of the gun through the target is how the lead is given. In order to achieve this effect imo requires confidence in ones abilty and complete commitment to the shot.
John, this is the key factor imo for trap. Unless you shoot like a sporter with maintained lead or any other weird technique (which sure as hell wil never work succesfully for trap) then gun speed is required in order to give lead. I like to refer to it as pushing through the target as that is how I personaly percieve it others will explain it in other way but the effect is the same the speed of the gun through the target is how the lead is given. In order to achieve this effect imo requires confidence in ones abilty and complete commitment to the shot.
