Greenwood gunsmiths

[tiptop]

Question, Do we all require a Monte Carlo Stock , if we do why is it not standard practice ?

What is wrong with either having a gun that fits you properly when you buy it , or having the stock bent as required.

Salop Sniper , you obviously have more money than sense , your being paid far too much for what you do , go out and by a new saddle and tack , it will be greatly appreciated.

I personally went to Tim and asked for a Monte Carlo stock.

Like Hamid says, all of the modern day sporters the combs are way to low, well they are for me any way. Now I would not buy a gun unless it had an adjustable comb, or at least a higher comb. In fact the last gun I bought was an F16 Intuition...yes a girlie gun, because it has a higher comb and a shorter stock which suits me.

If Tim is doing this to most of the guns that go to him, then may be that is what is required by those people.  A Monte Carlo wouldn't suit everyone, but just look around and see how many people that have a raised adjustable comb on a sporting shoot.

Each to there own, I suppose.

 

[Salopian]

tiptop,

Exactly we pay our money and take our choice, I cannot completely agree with some observations on this thread , why are the majority of guns stocked as they are in gunshops? Do the manufacturers have no idea after after nigh on 300 years of shotgun evolution?

Maybe , just maybe Tim is catering for the majorities inability to consistantly mount the gun correctly?

 

[diver682]

Jeremy,

 Point I was making was that Tim does this to nearly every gun he has for alteration. Surely that cannot be correct for everyone? Prior to thse Rowing blades he always fitted Jones Adjusters at obtuse angles.

Wrong , he did not do this to my gun when he fitted it to me. There are a lot of people using his services that are very happy with the work he carries out

 

[Bebo]

Maybe , just maybe Tim is catering for the majorities inability to consistantly mount the gun correctly?

Why would a monte carlo stock stop inconsistent mounts? And if it does, isn't that a good thing?

 

[tiptop]

tiptop,

Maybe , just maybe Tim is catering for the majorities inability to consistantly mount the gun correctly?

Not sure where you are coming from with that statement.

It's no good consistently mounting a gun with your eye below the top of action is it?? Would that not make you want to lift your head??

I don't know as I'm not a coach, instructor, nor a master gun fitter.  :smile:

 

[chesterse]

Highly delighted with the work Tim and Laura have done for me. Thoroughly recommended.

 

[westley]

Highly delighted with the work Tim and Laura have done for me. Thoroughly recommended.

And THAT is what matters  !

Sorry Salopian.........................I've only just stopped laughing and wiping the tears from my eyes   !  I just had this mental picture of you and a "FULL MONTE"    

 

[Hamster]

tiptop,

Exactly we pay our money and take our choice, I cannot completely agree with some observations on this thread , why are the majority of guns stocked as they are in gunshops? Do the manufacturers have no idea after after nigh on 300 years of shotgun evolution?

Maybe , just maybe Tim is catering for the majorities inability to consistantly mount the gun correctly?

Convention coupled to the fact that people keep buying them because they have no choice, imagine if you offered 2 options, do you honestly think people will just keep buying the low combs ? 

My observation is based on facts, I don't often (if ever) recall people saying they had a new stock made because they wanted one that was lower, also don't recall too many wanting an adjustable one in order to lower it (although I admit this does happen occasionally). 

 

[Doctor Lecter]

Convention coupled to the fact that people keep buying them because they have no choice, imagine if you offered 2 options, do you honestly think people will just keep buying the low combs ? 

My observation is based on facts, I don't often (if ever) recall people saying they had a new stock made because they wanted one that was lower, also don't recall too many wanting an adjustable one in order to lower it (although I admit this does happen occasionally). 

totally agree ,  one other personal point  I hate to see a adj comb with a massive gap to correct comb height , to me it ruins aesthetics  ,   unless it puts my scores in the 90s    

 

[westley]

Convention coupled to the fact that people keep buying them because they have no choice, imagine if you offered 2 options, do you honestly think people will just keep buying the low combs ? 

My observation is based on facts, I don't often (if ever) recall people saying they had a new stock made because they wanted one that was lower, also don't recall too many wanting an adjustable one in order to lower it (although I admit this does happen occasionally). 

Happened with me though. Although the comb is adjustable, it is on it's lowest setting (flat). The gun had an adjustable comb when I bought it,  it just had the best  'balance' of all of the guns that I tried, including the F16. I suggest that the balance was due to all of the 'ironwork' that comes with an adjustable comb. Now if I can just get the palm swell reduced to accommodate my Elton John fingers  !

All I would add regarding Monte Carlo stocks, is that I once had a Miroku 3800 with one. Whoever picked up that gun, could shoot well with it, due, I believe, to the parallel comb. It was the same height wherever you put your cheek.

 

[Geordieboy]

Another interesting observation is that when you see new custom stocks being made from scratch or adapted to suit for existing guns, the comb is almost invariably raised I've always maintained that most new guns combs are too low even for people who don't particularly need or want a higher one. 

Getting the grip area fine tuned, the pitch perfect, the length optimised and the cast spot on is one thing but why on earth can't makers just admit their combs are too low for no logical reason. 

I agree Hamster.  My mate AAA Class and a coach, advocates a gun with an adjustable comb.  He can set them up a treat and every one....bar none.....gets lifted up.  This lad has won the lot at England Level.  Every time I pick up a beretta I look at the back of the action.  How can you shoot when you can't see?  Best I picked up was a DT10 Trap.  Higher trap style comb....for me.   Brownings are the same.  Can't understand it....Especially since the ratio of height from eye to cheek.....is within millimeters for everybody out there.   

 

[Salopian]

"Why would a monte carlo stock stop inconsistent mounts? And if it does, isn't that a good thing?"

It doesn't

A Monte Carlo stock does not stop inconsistent gun mounts. It actually assists the positioning of the face/cheek to enable you to look down the rib.

Check out numerous photographs in magazines to see the variation in gun mounts and you will see awful stock positioning , which a very high comb and wide butt profile will assist in the gunmount being somewhere near . Which will help in alleviating poor gunmount .

 

[squimp]

Tim did some work for me a few years ago. He bent the stock UP and adjusted the grip and then customised a recoil  pad to fit my shoulder. The gun fits me beautifully. It’s a 20 bore so I don’t use it much. But every time I pick it up it makes me smile as it fits so well.

i agree about most factory sporting stocks being too low. I can’t see the rib on Berettas or an m k38 Sporter that I picked recently. An Mk38 trap is fine !

My current game/Sporter gun has a stock that was set up ( for sporting) by an international class trap shooter. All I had to do was lengthen the stock and now I can see plenty of rib. I think the drop at heel is about 46mm and there isn’t much gradient on the comb so the face measurement is high too.

 

[paul b]

Tims done a great job of getting my stock whear i want it,the grip is especially good and the comb shaped to fit my boney face but i have added bits and  now got everything spot on and in January will be getting him to finish it.

yes combs off the peg tend to be way low(its easy to take wood down so why start low?)

 

[Westward]

My theory is that default stock geometry is designed to appeal to the biggest market for shotguns by far which is the USA. I gather that most Americans seem to prefer to shoot shotguns like rifles looking level along the rib with only the bead visible.

There's a highly opinionated American "coach" called Gil Ash (look him up on YouTube) who claims that most combs are too high and too thick and we should all be shaving them down!

 

[Doctor Lecter]

My theory is that default stock geometry is designed to appeal to the biggest market for shotguns by far which is the USA. I gather that most Americans seem to prefer to shoot shotguns like rifles looking level along the rib with only the bead visible.

There's a highly opinionated American "coach" called Gil Ash (look him up on YouTube) who claims that most combs are too high and too thick and we should all be shaving them down!

mmmmm  so much information out there    its all subjective  ,    each to their own   as they say !     its a minefield .        scores prove if the gun fit is right  ,   skillset  is my problem !   :hmm:

 

[Hamster]

My theory is that default stock geometry is designed to appeal to the biggest market for shotguns by far which is the USA. I gather that most Americans seem to prefer to shoot shotguns like rifles looking level along the rib with only the bead visible.

There's a highly opinionated American "coach" called Gil Ash (look him up on YouTube) who claims that most combs are too high and too thick and we should all be shaving them down!

I was under the impression that since most of them shoot Trap they tend to prefer very high combs, in fact they think little of having so called 30/70 or even 20/80 set ups. 

 

[Westward]

I was under the impression that since most of them shoot Trap they tend to prefer very high combs, in fact they think little of having so called 30/70 or even 20/80 set ups. 

IIRC Ash is a sporting coach. I've certainly seen comments by him claiming most sporters are too high from the factory.

 

[matt s]

My F3 is probably too flat for most people,mates of mine can’t see the bead when they mount it,and yet for me i see a lot of rib,put a pound coin on breech end and i still see end bead above it and would see mid rib bead if it had one.im guessing this is due to face shape(high cheekbones)plus the fact i don’t bury my face hard down on the stock.Personally I’m not a fan of very high combs,for me if a gun is  too high it’s an additional  adjustment that needs to be factored into the shot,plus i think a great many sporting clays are missed over the top,so another reason why i would resist high comb.But that said,my F3 sight picture might be similar to the guys that are adding raisers to their combs.I guess it all depends of what too high really is!!!

 

[squimp]

There is lots of good stuff on the development of 'modern'  stock shapes in Michael Yardley's books that cover Gunfitting.

He suggests that US stocks tend to be straight (as in no cast) as shooters over there stand sideways on; and they have lots of drop as heel (as per Hamster's suggested measurements) because they stand more upright than we do when they shoot.

A 30/70 stock would smack me in the face every shot -  unless it was a serious monte carlo…...