Face Saving Decisions ?

Help Support :

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.

blaser f3

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
260
Considering the vast amount of emails phoncalls made to CPSA hq C.E.O and the SE Region secretary and chairman . I'm sure many of you will of heard about the problem's regarding Dartford CSC and a banned shooter .

I cannot understand the thinking behind the decision not to return the S E Region intercounties skeet and SE Region skeet championship ( they were taken from Dartford a few day's after an email saying they might be, no real right to reply there then) a statement was then issued by Dartford management stating the ban was lifted , and the shooter (exactly the same as a shooter the previous year ), was welcome to turn up and shoot both these event's and the leave the ground (last year the SE Region was more than happy with this arrangement)

Last Sunday JJ told Dartford the decision to remove the shoot's was going to stand, reason ...........do,nt know. ( no brainer ,problem removed, no problem, )

SB has given the new date for the SE Region intercounties as the june 24th at the NCSC,myself and others pointed out(week's ago) to the powers that be that this date was the same date as the English team selection shoot at Doveridge . Therefore many counties main skeet shooters would be at Doveridge , and i,m sure most counties will struggle with this to the point of not competing due to a lack of shooters. (Although this will not affect GLN as a month ago we put a statement saying we will not be sending a team ,therefore not holding any sel. shoot's (last year 150+ shooter's) as a protest ,moaning and mumbling seem's to be ignored.

It was also pointed out that the shooter in question ,has shot every year for the last 11 years( apart from one) for England , so you tell me ? where is he going to be er........(no brainer). Still it look's like he has got his way in pulling shoot's from Dartford . (Don't you love it)

I think this ruling (you know the one , the one that after many email,s , lot's of reading, by many members that nobody, SB ,JJ or NF seem's able to point out in the CPSA rules/articles where it can be found , although NF emailed me to say it was 'implied' mmm.........

If it exist's should only be used in some circumstances ,as it will bring finacial hardship to ground's and as in this case to the detriment of shooter,s (shooter's across the SE Region not being to represent theinr counties or maybe entire counties not being able to raise team's).In these time's can we afford to alienate the very few ground's we have, especialy when a ground such as Dartford has spent so much money improving thing's for shooter's especially skeet shooter's and CPSA members in the south (the saying "bite the hand that feed's" comes to mind) I believe this is a very foolish road to go down

The decision taken seem's to be wholly about saving face and not about the shooters of the SE Region ,which should be the primary concern or the Region. Support your member's not your decision

CHEERS ANDRE

P.S sorry if i,ve gone on a bit (wait until you know me )

 
so hang on a minute didn't really get what you have posted.

So Dartford banned a shooter from their ground or the CPSA did?

Then the SE Intercounties Skeet has been take away from Dartford? Why because they banned a shooter who could not take part?

So then Dartford lifted the Ban so the shooter could take part but it was too late and now they have not got the shoot?

Is this what I uderstand from your post?

Is this the guy who is a renowned shot who decided to shoot targets from the hip causing a safety issue?

Please explain a bit more clearly as you have lost me!

Glen.

 
I think we need a concise version, I'm lost! Can you narrow it down to bare facts and what the issue(s) is/are?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think we need a concise version, I'm lost! Can you narrow it down to bare facts and what the issue(s) is/are?
Right let me try and shorten it (my other half is alway'stelling me i waffle on ) A shooter was banned by Dartford , because of this the SER said the following shoot's the SER Intercounties and the SER championship would be removed , as according to 'the rules' any paid up member of the CPSA must be allowed to shoot regional championship's . The shoot's were then taken away a few day's later.The management /ground owner then issued an email to the SER &CPSA HQ stating that for these shoot's the ban was lifted therefore allowing the shooter to compete (exactly the same as the previous year ,with a different shooter, in agreement with the SER) after a period of 3-4 week's, i,e last Sunday. even after being told that the new date SB had arranged with bisley to hold the SER SKEET INTERCOUNTIES was the same as the England skeet team selection shoot , therefore many shooters would not be able to attend the SER intercounties . Johnny Johnson arrived at Dartford and told Gail (manergeress) that the decision to not return the shoot's to Dartford would stand with no reason given ( just a wave of the hand) You have to ask yourself why ? the issue (the same as last year) was resolved, therefore return the shoot's to Dartford . The decision (keeping the shoot's at Bisley) does'nt benefit anybody especially the skeet shooter's of the SER . The only reason I can see for this decision is to save the face of the person or people involved in the original(wrongful,in my eye's) decision of the removal of these shoot's

Two more thing's.

This 'rule' about a banned shooter , does that mean up to the date of 24 june (SERinter.) if a shooter went to Bisley and for whatever reason got banned , would the SER immediately within day's remove the shoot to another ground ??

Glen the shooter banned is not the same guy that shot target's from his hip

REGARDS ANDRE (hope this is a bit clearer)

.

 
seems completely ridiculous to me! Shame we can't get the view from the CPSA on the matter.

I know that in sporting or fitasc the same thing happened once and the shooter was allowed to shoot the selection shoot even know they were banned from the ground for the exact same reason, ie being a paid up member.

Don't see how they can just change things! Anways I thought the home of The English Skeet Club was Dartford??

Sounds ifffy to me!!!

Glen.

 
I sort of understood that version better ;) I would say in answer to your question regarding removing the shoot from bisley if a shooter is banned from that ground before it happens, then Yes, the venue should be changed. A precedent wether you or I agree with it has been set

 
In my opinion the shooter who got banned should be the one who loses out not the whole of the Skeet community!!!

best you get to Bisley Fuzzy you may have a chance of your first title!!! ;-)

 
Guys - be careful about names and allegations in this thread... we'll pull it if there is any risk to ShootClay.

Thanks!

 
I agree Glen, Dartford have compromised and said the shooter can shoot that one time only and precedent had been set the year before. Does smell a bit iffy to me too.

More to this than meets the eye one would Imagine

 
Last edited by a moderator:
In my opinion the shooter who got banned should be the one who loses out not the whole of the Skeet community!!!

best you get to Bisley Fuzzy you may have a chance of your first title!!! ;-)
Dartford "was" the home of the English Skeet Club, this might give you an idea who the banned shooter is.
 
Feels like a real can of worms this one. Best to give it a discreet miss, I think *whistles*

 
Yes i am aware on the ban but I don't get that as I don't know the detail behind the ban? After all that hard work that man is done then he gets banned from the club if that's the case seems a bit OTT, must have pissed somebody off usually happens in shooting! There was a vote of confidence on ESC and the members voted for him so that for me is a seperate issue whatever he did to get banned does not mean the shoot should not have stayed at Dartford.

Seems like bad organisation and communication from CPSA side from your account.

I was under the impression the rules were if a fully paid member is banned from a ground then they are still allowed to shoot the selection shoots and major competitions on that ground and if the ground does no accept this the competition can be moved somewhere else?

Why did the CPSA not just call Dartford and say look , you have to let this member shoot that is the rules for a comp like this and if you can not do that we have to take the shoot somewhere else?

Simple communication. Surely if from what you are saying is true, the CPSA is not allowed to just pull a shoot and inform later without communicating properly about it to the club?

I think the CPSA should release a statement on the subject to clear things up.

Has anybody asked the CPSA to do that?

The CEO should sort it out and give a reason if they made a mistake then just hold your hands up etc.

Glen.

 
Who or what is CPSA HQ? Do they do anything? Do they have employees that get paid? Do those employees have a job description and do they carry out their jobs within that job description? Does this mythical organisation have a board of governors or a council or a committee?

This is a sport that we compete in, not an occupation.

Therefore it should be conducted in a gentlemanly way with us all obeying any rules.

Not cheating, being banned, but there being no penalty.

Come on CPSA HQ, grow a pair of balls, because there certainly seems enough pricks working there.

Sorry if this needs to be censored Admins. but for pity's sake what are we paying our subscriptions for?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have to admit the CEO did send me a letter I needed when I asked confirming that I had been a member of the CPSA for ex amount of years.

Very timely and efficiently done as well!

Glen.

 
Please feel free to edit/delete if I overstep the mark......I shall attempt to step on egg shells!!!!!

The person in question has not been banned for any shooting type incident, but has followed a course of action that has caused a lot of issues and ill feeling and has consequently been shown the door.

These issues, it would appear, have also led to the resignation of the Kent committee.........

Sadly, whilst one side appears to be acting with a quiet dignity and level of control (that I, for one, would not be displaying in the circumstances) the other has clearly looked to 'spin' the story - see recent article in Clay Shooting - and seems to have enjoyed the favour of senior members of the CPSA.

I know which ground will be enjoying my unwaivering support - Dartford - and no, I'm not a member or related to anyone there!!

 
The following is now published on the SER website

http://sites.cpsa.co...east/stop-press
Although i do'nt agree with this 'a banned shooter must be allowed to shoot on the ground they are banned from '(i think the situation should be looked at very carefully before implementing this ruling and not used blindly) I understand what JJ is saying 'the shooter must be allowed to shoot these event's'. HE IS , JJ, SB and NF were informed 7-10 day's after the initial ban by the owner /managment that they had recinded the ban therefore JW can shoot the event's . But this for whatever reason has have been totally ignored (although last year the SER was very happy when the same decision was taken regarding another shooter in the same situation ) Much to the annoyance and detriment of many shooter's , WITH NO REASON OR EXPLAINATION GIVEN
 
The following is now published on the SER website

http://sites.cpsa.co.uk/south-east/stop-press
Aah, all becomes clear!!!!! Silly old me thought it had more to do with the member in question, who also sits on the SER committee, changing the dates to suit his own purposes - he couldn't make Dartford as it clashed with another commitment. Good to see that I am clearly mistaken, it's all out in the open now & has been decisively dealt with!!!! :-0

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top