CPSA English Sporting Rules

[** Pending Removal **]

Think you're confusing English Sporting terminology with FITASC Sporting Nicola,

CPSA Booklet No. 7 Technical Rules, P18 Section 7 Technical Rules for English Sporting,

Definition FOLLOWING PAIR

7.06 Is a pair where the second target is launched from the same trap as soon as it is safely possible after the first target.

The FITASC Rules for International Sporting describe the same target presentation as a Rafale Double (4.2.3) and add that the targets may be shot in any order.

Regards

Mr Potter

Thanks Pot.

But no I am not confused. I only consider FITASC as the true sporting discipline........

(laughsoutloudwithdeadbattery)

Incommer alert.

Off to watch Lord Sweetie.

Laters.

 

[TobyM]

Popcorn!!!! Come on everyone, gather round

 

[Rob C]

Sorry Nicola

 

[Fuzrat]

You could kind of say the same for some rabbit stands too, not to mention the vagaries of weather affected targets on different or even the same day.

Very true, but wind/weather is taken into account in the same rule. Rabbits can and do bounce but not usually more than a couple of feet, Helice targets even thrown of a fixed rotor will be completely different.

 

[Hamster]

Very true, but wind/weather is taken into account in the same rule. Rabbits can and do bounce but not usually more than a couple of feet, Helice targets even thrown of a fixed rotor will be completely different.

If any ground is silly enough to wear the costs I won't be moaning. :.: :.:

 

[Fuzrat]

Me niether, would love to see a whirly on an ESP layout over to you Messers Stones, Lovatt and Curtis :.: :.:

 

[Chard]

Here's another ESP one for you. Anyone who knows me knows that a quick way to get me off on one, is to mention the 3 second rule for launching clays in ESP.

Some people keep trying to tell me that the ref has 3 seconds to launch the clay.

I think the CPSA rules are sloppy and illogical on this, for the following reasons (bear with me):

1 - If it was 3 seconds, it wouldn't state that the second bird must be launched "at the sound of the gun" i.e. instantly. It is logical to assume that both birds have the same rule for launch time.

2 - If it was 3 seconds, it would be very specific, like it is in Olympic Skeet rules.

3 - If it was 3 seconds in other disciplines, voice activated traps wouldn't be set to instant, they would be random, up to 3 seconds.

4 - If it was 3 seconds, when we train new refs, we wouldn't tell them to hit the button as soon as the shooter shouts "pull". We would tell them they've got 3 seconds to arse about first.

5 - It is specifically "instant" in ESK rules for instance, it should be specific in ESP in my opinion.

The only time it mentions 3 seconds in the ESP rules is in the long list of "No Target" examples and it uses the word "launched". I think it is badly written and misinterpreted. I think it should mean if you can't see the bird in 3 seconds (behind trees or a hill etc) it is a "No Target".

Sloppy rule-writing in my opinion. I have never succeeded in getting the CPSA officials interested in looking at it, presumably because that would involve doing something. There's no room for sloppy ambiguity in competition rules.

 

[jim french]

In a recent pole 95% of scorers didnt know there were any rules and admitted to agreeing with any one for a speedy end to the day.

 

[Westward]

In a recent pole 95% of scorers didnt know there were any rules and admitted to agreeing with any one for a speedy end to the day.

.....And for a quiet life....

 

[Hamster]

I agree Chard, in fact in my experience most competition shooters refuse targets thrown a tad too late. We've all seen it, they're all grooved up with Pull and then moments later they break the gun wiv a dirty glance whilst watching the now departing clay - the really good ones then proceed to realign the writing on the shells in case they'd budged during the dismount :.: :.: and wiv one further reassuring dirty look call again. :.: :.:

I have never known a ref refuse them a rethrow, I'm certainly not aware of a 3 second rule, thought that was for Lympic Skeet?

 

[Chard]

I agree Chard, in fact in my experience most competition shooters refuse targets thrown a tad too late. We've all seen it, they're all grooved up with Pull and then moments later they break the gun wiv a dirty glance whilst watching the now departing clay - the really good ones then proceed to realign the writing on the shells in case they'd budged during the dismount :.: :.: and wiv one further reassuring dirty look call again. :.: :.:

I have never known a ref refuse them a rethrow, I'm certainly not aware of a 3 second rule, thought that was for Lympic Skeet?

Yes, I used to do a bit of reffing and I got a few of those looks if I fumbled the launch and it was a second or two late. To be honest, I was happy to call it as a "no bird" and launch again, as it is my belief it should be instant.

I know all the old blather about how we should be able to hit them whatever the launch delay and of course, many ESP targets are not really affected by a slow launch. Those long crossers and floaty incomers are just the same after 3 seconds as they are with an instant launch. But skeet-type targets are a different game. I personally find a slow launch very off-putting on short-range fast birds. Catton Hall is a prime example. They always have one stand on the skeet range. If I get a 2 or 3 second delay on that stand, I've missed it :.:

It seems many shooters, like me, just don't accept that a 3 second delay is the correct interpretation on the rule. The very fact that half the membership believe one thing and the other half believe something else is absurd and totally unacceptable. A little bit of clarity and consistency in writing the rules would sort it out, but I don't suppose it'll ever happen.

 

[timps]

You also have the strange paradox that that if you interpret the 3 second rule to mean you have 3 seconds to launch the clay you could only do this on the first bird of a report pair .

REPORT PAIR

7.05 Is a pair where the second target is launched at the sound of the gun firing at the first target.

So if you took 3 seconds to launch the 2nd brid after the sound of the gun firing you are in breach of rule 7.05

So why the inconsistency between the 1st and 2nd birds?

Bloke in the pub writing CPSA rules on a beer mat again....

 

[jim french]

:yell:

 

[Chard]

You also have the strange paradox that that if you interpret the 3 second rule to mean you have 3 seconds to launch the clay you could only do this on the first bird of a report pair .

REPORT PAIR

7.05 Is a pair where the second target is launched at the sound of the gun firing at the first target.

So if you took 3 seconds to launch the 2nd brid after the sound of the gun firing you are in breach of rule 7.05

So why the inconsistency between the 1st and 2nd birds?

Bloke in the pub writing CPSA rules on a beer mat again....

I mentioned the second bird in my first post, you bell end

True though. It's a load of cobblers. Sloppily written by a schoolboy. GCSE Grade D, stand in the corner with a pointy hat :huh:

 

[ExSCA]

The slow pull thing really annoys me as well, especially if I am shooting well, the whole stand feels like I am working to a rhythm.

My understanding for this is that under CPSA rules, I cannot challenge that?

 

[Chard]

The slow pull thing really annoys me as well, especially if I am shooting well, the whole stand feels like I am working to a rhythm.

My understanding for this is that under CPSA rules, I cannot challenge that?

It wants sorting out in an official capacity Matt.

We must have some CPSA bods on here who aren't afraid to challenge the heirarchy to justify their sloppy crap.

Failing that, I'll write to them myself, which could be counter-productive :.: :.: :.:

 

[Hamster]

Strangely enough the scorers intention is often to be helpful on the second bird. They think by letting you have a tiny bit more time in getting ready for the second bird you'll have more chance of hitting it, not true of course as many can attest.

 

[timps]

I mentioned the second bird in my first post, you bell end

True though. It's a load of cobblers. Sloppily written by a schoolboy. GCSE Grade D, stand in the corner with a pointy hat :huh:

I gave up reading your post as you usually type drivel with half a paragraph of expletives on the end

The thing is, I don't mind a slow pull if it's consistently slow.

I have experienced the situation where trappers press the button but it doesn't come so press again a second or so later and the variability that causes gives me problems, this is usually coupled with the fact the trap is probably playing up so there are actual no birds factored in.

My take on that situation is once the button is pressed you should wait then call a no bird, but the way the rules are worded he can press away for up to three seconds on the first bird to try and get it to launch but not on the 2nd.

 

[ExSCA]

I think I shall have to upgrade from my current 'tut and glare at the scorer' approach to handling this.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

The slow pull thing really annoys me as well, especially if I am shooting well, the whole stand feels like I am working to a rhythm.

My understanding for this is that under CPSA rules, I cannot challenge that?

Yes you can challenge a slow pull Matt. You do not shoot the bird, instead you put the gun down and put your hand up and say 'appeal' or some other polite expression. The ref has to then see what the reason for refusing the bird is.