Balancing & weight distribution

[El Spavo]

You can have a 10k Krieghoff and still be mediocre.  Speaking from personal experience here.

Hah, bless you.

You shooting over 50-60%?... then that's good enough in my books sunshine.

 

[Lloyd]

For Kreighoff money, I'd want to sit in a deck chair with a remote and hit 95 

I may very well be demonstrating my naivety here, but were it not for the action of the Blaser, I'd definitely go for a B525. No other gun has felt as comfortable or intuitive other than the F16 which feels equally as good in the shoulder feels better and less intrusive of thought when opening/closing. That little extra carries a hefty premium, one which I feel I can justify.

Other guns at the F16 price point to me don't offer anything that I feel would make a difference to me. The Fausti XF4, Zoli Kronos, CG Summit Ascent are all kinda meh to me.

The B525 is a great gun and a great price. It's very hard to not just go out and get one. The blaser is just a saucy little mistress with frilly knickers. Tempting it may be, a touch expensive to keep, perhaps. Worth the trouble?

As luck would have it I have Purdey at home 

 

[MartynB]

Hah, a big part of me wants to NOT buy another gun and be just as good with my cheap & cheerful as someone with a 10k Krieghoff (although having never tried one, I do like the teutonic efficiency and ultra precision of Blasers!), but I do get that at some point I may possibly need to change to summat else to progress. That is partly the reason for me starting this thread though: that and cast/comb adjustment to me seem the only things that make a difference to any bang stick.

You’ve recently  shot an 80 + with your current gun I think . That  tells you all you need to know .  Don’t muck about too much . If you want a bit more barrel weight , buy a couple of extended chokes , a bit of stock weight  ? do what Will advised and stuff the bolt hole  . Don’t do anything that can’t be changed .  

 

[Will Hewland]

Hah, a big part of me wants to NOT buy another gun and be just as good with my cheap & cheerful as someone with a 10k Krieghoff (although having never tried one, I do like the teutonic efficiency and ultra precision of Blasers!), but I do get that at some point I may possibly need to change to summat else to progress. That is partly the reason for me starting this thread though: that and cast/comb adjustment to me seem the only things that make a difference to any bang stick.

One of my biggest regrets was getting suckered into changing my B525 after a year for a “better” gun. If I could go back in time I would have adjusted the stock weight, fitted a nice and slightly longer butt pad (the new 525 ones are good now I think) and stuck with it for at least a few years more. I would have saved a fortune and progressed faster. 

 

[Charliedog]

For Kreighoff money, I'd want to sit in a deck chair with a remote and hit 95 

I may very well be demonstrating my naivety here, but were it not for the action of the Blaser, I'd definitely go for a B525. No other gun has felt as comfortable or intuitive other than the F16 which feels equally as good in the shoulder feels better and less intrusive of thought when opening/closing. That little extra carries a hefty premium, one which I feel I can justify.

Other guns at the F16 price point to me don't offer anything that I feel would make a difference to me. The Fausti XF4, Zoli Kronos, CG Summit Ascent are all kinda meh to me.

The B525 is a great gun and a great price. It's very hard to not just go out and get one. The blaser is just a saucy little mistress with frilly knickers. Tempting it may be, a touch expensive to keep, perhaps. Worth the trouble?

As luck would have it I have Purdey at home 

Got to be honest the F16 is the hardest gun ive ever tried to open, would never buy one for this reason?

 

[Westward]

Got to be honest the F16 is the hardest gun ive ever tried to open, would never buy one for this reason?

That's not normal. I've tried about 3 and none of them had that problem. The F16 is a pretty decent gun to shoot and fully competitive with anything else around it's price point.

 

[Will Hewland]

That's not normal. I've tried about 3 and none of them had that problem. The F16 is a pretty decent gun to shoot and fully competitive with anything else around it's price point.

In fairness, Blasers are heavier to open than some, it’s the way they are designed to cock the gun upon opening and close easily so as not to distract the shooter I gather.. I’m used to being firm with the lever. The upside is no gun closes more nicely. (Well, maybe a Browning). It’s a quirk that is soon forgotten. I ensure it’s all clean and greased so is as smooth as possible. 

 

[Charliedog]

To be fair it was a new one, nice to hold and shoot but practically had to put it across my knee to open, he kept it a month and changed to an F3 which he tells me is slightly better, i will have a go soon

 

[Bebo]

The one thing I miss about shooting a Beretta. Push the lever over and it just drops open under the weight of the barrel.

 

[El Spavo]

One of my biggest regrets was getting suckered into changing my B525 after a year for a “better” gun. If I could go back in time I would have adjusted the stock weight, fitted a nice and slightly longer butt pad (the new 525 ones are good now I think) and stuck with it for at least a few years more. I would have saved a fortune and progressed faster. 

I have a feeling I'll always keep the 525 (it's my first gun love, if you will, and equally I won't sell my first guitar either, despite me now having a dozen or so better ones) and the wife kind of has this thing that she wants our boy to go shooting with me in years to come... bit long sighted as he's not quite 20 months old! :sarcastic: Albeit, I have a massive lack of experience, at least from my limited understanding it does appear to fit quite well, so It's fine and I reckon I'll have a little play about with that lead roll and the stock, just out of curiousity. You've briefly seen me shoot Will and were surprisingly complimentary in not thinking I was a complete biff so I reckon I'll carry on as I am for quite a while, and thank you. (and although some people don't like them, yes, the new Inflex II pads fitted to Brownings instead of the old, shiny hard ends absolutely work for me, especially as you can have almost infinite lengthening on them thanks to the different spacers that you can chuck in... I'm 6'3" and got a 15" or so stock, but a friend has about 3 big spacers to make his a monster of a B725 stock!)

On Lloyd's 525 review he also says at 7.7lb it's comparatively a bit light, so a bit of plate in the stock might not go amiss, we'll see.

The one thing I miss about shooting a Beretta. Push the lever over and it just drops open under the weight of the barrel.

Yup, the 525 does this and it just makes the gun feel... smooth, so I know where you're coming from.

 

[MartynB]

When I’ve seen people in a shop balancing a gun on a finger , usually with the finger under the hinge pin , I’ve never seen them do it with a loaded gun On the other hand I’ve never seen anyone shoot with an unloaded gun . Think about that . 

 

[Hamster]

When I’ve seen people in a shop balancing a gun on a finger , usually with the finger under the hinge pin , I’ve never seen them do it with a loaded gun On the other hand I’ve never seen anyone shoot with an unloaded gun . Think about that . 

Yes and it's a completely arbitrary (read pointless) "test" in any case since the hinge pin is not necessarily the centre of all guns in any case. It's how it feels and sits in the hands whilst held at the address position, preferably with only one or two pairs left to go   because that's when you really begin to notice poor "balance".

 

[El Spavo]

Yup, had a little play, and it's amazing how much lump is needed if you do take that arbitrary point Hamster mentioned! To make it look to what I thought was balancd completely equally on the hinge pin, I had to clock it from 7.7lb (Browning figure) to 8.5lb, which I think is DT10/11 standard weight ballpark and made it feel completely different, understandably! Looking at the photos (below), it was probably a little too much on the stock side, but that was with the set width strips of the lead roll I'd guessed at and no trimming, so in essence, possibly a little too heavy right from the off. With it feeling so heavy as a whole (obviously just what I'm not used to is all), I had a look at other gun weights to see what various popular manufacturers are giving out and Blaser have the F3 at 8.2lb and the F16 at 7.14lb, so I decided to go in the middle with that and what others had said about 8lb being a fairly acceptable figure for a lot of experienced shooters and plumped for making a lead slug which brought the total up to that oh so magical 8lb. Stayed away from the monster K80 dimensions!! :notme: (Oh, for comparison, a Hull Superfast fibre 28g cartridge is 1.34oz.)

Essentially, I had already taken what Hamster mentioned above about the finger test with slight caution (which I kind of thought was a bit of an all too obvious/convenient place to measure ALL guns pure balance but I'm a newbie so what do I know?!) and married that to the total overall weight of a gun straight down.

So variations of this original 14.6oz folded lead ballast, went in here...

Now, without wanting to sound like a complete tool, it currently feels... nice! When raising above horizontal, it seems to fall in my shoulder ever so slightlyyyy... better(?), which I was surprised at as I figured it would make absolutely no discernable difference when you're not aiming to shoot, but I'll see if it makes any real world difference this week.

Hey ho, gotta love those head games! (but it was a fun evening messing around) :imsohappy:

Again, I get that it's all a bit wooly putting a finger under the hinge pin (having said that a friend said the official guy at Beretta world judged his that way... go figure), but seeing as that's what people love to do, this is how it faired:  initially, it wouldn't sit there without falling over, barrel end, cos it was massively biased that way, but when it started with the huge 14/15 oz lump in which made it weigh in at 8.5lb odd it looked like this...

which then went to this with 7oz in (7.14lb total) which then went to 9oz (8lb total)

(genuinely a bit surprised looking at the comparison that 2oz makes that much difference, although I guess slug shape is a factor too and I think I made the final one a little stumpier so I could round the ends back to clamp it together better.)

Sorry for boring anyone, but just thought I'd add my work for the evening on the subject in hand; please feel free to chip in comments as to thoughts and whatnot (of which part of me was wondering whether I need to wrap the lead in something just in case it has some unknown to me effect on the wood). 

 

[Lloyd]

As mentioned before, quite arbitrary, but for what it's worth, whenever I have seen the "balance the gun hinge pin on yer finger" test, the gun has always been closed.

 

[El Spavo]

As mentioned before, quite arbitrary, but for what it's worth, whenever I have seen the "balance the gun hinge pin on yer finger" test, the gun has always been closed.

Hard to do as literally a gnats wing width seperated falling one way or the other, but this is the equilibrium point (without me bottling it about dropping it when the other hand has my phone in!! :sarcastic: )...

 

[Lloyd]

 KUDOS brother!

 

[El Spavo]

And tried it with and without cartridges as previously mentioned!

 

[El Spavo]

it's a completely arbitrary (read pointless) "test" in any case since the hinge pin is not necessarily the centre of all guns in any case.

Agree with this but sure I saw in a Ben Husthwaite video that he gauges the balance point as halfway between the hands... which is kind of where the hinge pin is. Sort of makes sense, so is thispossibly where it came about or do people think it's still cobblers as a reference point? .

 

[Lloyd]

I think it’s exactly that. One mans (or many mans or womanseses) reference point. I think if one man preferred it more towards the rear, the balance point would be in the triggery finger hole thing, or if preference was for finger up front then it would be a finger on the fore end . . . Possibly? 

 

[Martinj]

are we still talking about guns?