B.H. and chokes.

[Salopian]

The effect of choke constriction is often down to messing with your head . 

GD says in his videos that he shoots tight chokes , why does he carry a set of spare barrels  plus his Kemen was choked at 1/2 & 3/4  , which of course is tightish .

I am told RF shoots Full choke?

I used to shoot MK38 F & XF  0.040" & 0.044" never had an issue was happy and confident , then bought a multichoke  aaaaargh !

I personally think 1/2 &1/2 is the best combination and will do everything you need it to do , open enough for close stuff and tight enough for range .

An excellant book by Dr. A C Jones scientifically proves that 3/4 choke is actually the ideal most efficient choke .

Why don't we try it ? I am sure many actually do but aren't telling . Why?

 

[Bebo]

When I first started shooting I didn't even look at the chokes I had in my Silver Pigeon when it arrived.  Thought I was shooting 1/4 and 1/2.  After about 18 months I realised it was actually 1/2 and 3/4.  Changed them down one.  Didn't really notice any difference.

When I bought my current gun, I decided to just go for fixed chokes (3/8 3/8).  I'm not making any claims to be a brilliant shot, I'm middling at best, but I haven't noticed any problem at all with it breaking distant targets.  Even when there have been some daft targets put on (a certain battue at AGL last year comes to mind) they've broken when I've put the lead in the right place.

 

[Richard59]

When I first started shooting I didn't even look at the chokes I had in my Silver Pigeon when it arrived.  Thought I was shooting 1/4 and 1/2.  After about 18 months I realised it was actually 1/2 and 3/4.  Changed them down one.  Didn't really notice any difference.

When I bought my current gun, I decided to just go for fixed chokes (3/8 3/8).  I'm not making any claims to be a brilliant shot, I'm middling at best, but I haven't noticed any problem at all with it breaking distant targets.  Even when there have been some daft targets put on (a certain battue at AGL last year comes to mind) they've broken when I've put the lead in the right place.

Im in the fixed 3/8th in both too, for ESP whilst in my own grey cells added with modern cartridges all sizes of Im of the belief Ive never been underchoked, but and for me its a but I have often looked at the mid to close in stuff and the massive puff of tiny bits / nothing left of clay breaks (& and yes the daft misses) about being overchoked. Tis all in head I fear.

 

[Bebo]

Im in the fixed 3/8th in both too, for ESP whilst in my own grey cells added with modern cartridges all sizes of Im of the belief Ive never been underchoked, but and for me its a but I have often looked at the mid to close in stuff and the massive puff of tiny bits / nothing left of clay breaks (& and yes the daft misses) about being overchoked. Tis all in head I fear.

Yes.  I have a tendency to overlead close stuff on occasion.  Particularly going too far under close dropping targets eg, when your second target on a sim pair is close and dropping in towards you.  I tend to have a handful of piston wad 9s in my pocket for close stuff.  Not sure it makes much difference in reality, but maybe using them makes me thing more about them being close targets and I'm a little more careful as a result.

 

[Hamster]

As with most things in life the answer is somewhere in the middle  . 

 

[Salopian]

Hamster is that two middle chokes or one either side of middle ?????

 

[Freddypip]

Briley do an interesting choke chart here = https://www.briley.com/popup.aspx?src=/images/Product/large/60919.jpg

It is surprising how rare -  particularly when the extent of exposed clay is taken into account - a choke above a 1/2 is required.

The chokes effect is a factor of the choke and barrel so aftermarket chokes can end up different to their stated value (assuming cartridges are equal !!!).

I also don't understand why anybody would have a fixed choke gun turned into a multi choke gun let alone letting anyone near an SO4EELL to do that.

Personally I have aftermarket chokes (on a Beretta 686E) because I wanted external (at the time) to protect the barrel end & add a bit of weight.

I shoot 3/8th and 5/8th - I can't see the need for two different constrictions but they are what I have.

Anything from 1/4 to 3/4 seems to make sense to me in whatever combination floats your boat - I recall years back Mike Yardley wrote an article where chokes were tested and the standard 1/4 mobil choke came out near the top with a statement which I remember and recite if my fingers get itchy at the end of barrels - A 1/4 choke will provide a suitable pattern and its then a case of whether the clay will fit through any gaps in it - only when you are sure it will is a tighter choke required.
 

 

[Lloyd]

@Westward 

Observation only of course, no science involved so pretty subjective but I would say no gun smashes the clays more thoroughly than a Krieghoff.
 

I’ve no doubt as to your observations, but was curious. So I checked who shoots what.

• R Faulds. Guerini 
  
• S Green. Browning
  
• M Myers. Krieghoff
  
• G Digweed. Perazzi
  
• C Childerhouse. Browning
  
• C Cruise. Blaser
  
• J B Day. Beretta
  
• A Harvey. Perrazzi 
  
• N Hendrick. Guerini
  
• G Miles. Krieghoff
  
• B McGuire. Blaser
  
• A Matarese. Beretta
  

Im not certain who, if any of these chaps are sponsored by the manufacturers and their loyalty is at least in pat a commercial consideration or purely preference on each of their parts. 
 

On numbers sold and history Beretta and Browning lead the way. On technical innovation, perhaps the scarce Longthorne are out in front? 
Mr Bidwell famously won quite a bit with Browning before parting ways to go with Blaser whom he subsequently won with first time out.

Im sure kreighoff are indeed a clay busting machine, but I honestly can’t see anything outstandingly obvious that makes them better apart from those who squeeze their triggers. 

 

[Mike]

@Westward 

I’ve no doubt as to your observations, but was curious. So I checked who shoots what.

• R Faulds. Guerini 
  
• S Green. Browning
  
• M Myers. Krieghoff
  
• G Digweed. Perazzi
  
• C Childerhouse. Browning
  
• C Cruise. Blaser
  
• J B Day. Beretta
  
• A Harvey. Perrazzi 
  
• N Hendrick. Guerini
  
• G Miles. Krieghoff
  
• B McGuire. Blaser
  
• A Matarese. Beretta
  

I would not be at all surprised if most, if not all of the American names on there shoot aftermarket chokes, not what came with the gun.

 

[Lloyd]

@Mike Thanks a lot Mike for piquing my curiosity. Obviously now I have to go check. Another hour of my life lost! 
 

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Life is too short to shoot a gun as ugly as a Krieghoff    :thumbsd:    :lolu:

 

[Westward]

@Westward 

Im sure kreighoff are indeed a clay busting machine, but I honestly can’t see anything outstandingly obvious that makes them better apart from those who squeeze their triggers. 

My point wasn't that Krieghoffs were better machinery, rather that the ballistic performance of their barrel/choke setup appears to me to pulverise the clays more comprehensively than all but one other make of gun (which will remain nameless).

 

[Mike]

@Mike Thanks a lot Mike for piquing my curiosity. Obviously now I have to go check. Another hour of my life lost! 
 

Lloyd, it's called sponsership, money in other words.

 

[Luke_(NL)]

My point wasn't that Krieghoffs were better machinery, rather that the ballistic performance of their barrel/choke setup appears to me to pulverise the clays more comprehensively than all but one other make of gun (which will remain nameless).

In order to test that hypothesis, one would have to factor out as many variables as possible. Having a single (talented) shooter shoot the same cartridges at the same  target over and over again, with different guns (each of the same barrel length) being the only variable. Chokes would obviously matter, so those would have to be set-up as similar as can be as well. Then it's on to see how comprehensively each clay is pulverised...

I surely wouldn't want volunteer for picking up and counting / measuring each piece of every single clay.  Also I wouldn't want to wager on the outcome showing any noticeable differences. That said, the shooter I train with shoots a Krieghoff and he does produce far more dust than I do... but I for one am not in any doubt about the cause 

 

[Lloyd]

My point wasn't that Krieghoffs were better machinery, rather that the ballistic performance of their barrel/choke setup appears to me to pulverise the clays more comprehensively than all but one other make of gun (which will remain nameless).

Better ballistic performance does sound like better machinery to me. The gun is surely a machine designed to extract ballistic performance from the cartridge in my mind. 
So, I guess by this you mean the action is noting special but perhaps as you say, the barrels/choke and perhaps forcing cones, barrel bore diameter are making a difference?

If I’m understanding you correctly, what you’re seeing is when a shooter hits a clay with a kreighoff with similar pattern placement, then you see more dust?

i was pulled up by an instructor (AAA, shoots a Perrazi) who enquiring about one of my breaks, what did I think of my shot. I said I felt it could have been more convincing. He replied “you don’t win extra points for style”

maybe Perazzi isn’t the nameless gun? Is it Blaser? It’s Blaser isn’t it? Let it be Blaser. Please. Pretty please with a cherry on top? It isn’t Blaser is it?

 

[Guest]

My point wasn't that Krieghoffs were better machinery, rather that the ballistic performance of their barrel/choke setup appears to me to pulverise the clays more comprehensively than all but one other make of gun (which will remain nameless).

why will the other brand remain nameless , we are all interested

39 chips wins over 38 puffs of smoke though...

 

[Salopian]

The reason that the other gun as not been named is because none of you REALLY want to go back to shooting a Miroku .

 

[Guest]

ha,use a 3800 ,you couldnt prize it out of my hands...

 

[Will Hewland]

ha,use a 3800 ,you couldnt prize it out of my hands...

There’s a chance for me to win it? Oh, you mean prise.

This is how bored I am. Sorry. 

 

[Richard59]

The reason that the other gun as not been named is because none of you REALLY want to go back to shooting a Miroku .

When I bought my P was fortunate enough to be in a position to keep hold of my MK38, she’s only seen light of day twice in three years and is a reassuring backstop should the P ever have to go.