8's for sporting

[** Pending Removal **]

Nicola,

I suspect this "top ten" is more Don Brunt's choice than an official "ranked" list but you may have heard of one or two of them.

George Digweed

Richard Faulds

Graham Stirzaker

Kate Brown

Cheryl Hall

Mark Winser

John Bidwell

Georgie Jones

Ollie Baker

Matt Hance

.

Only one I could not swear has competed (and won) internationally is the junior, Ollie Baker.

Plenty of Italian guns but not an Italian cartridge amongst them. Might be different in the world of trap and all things going away but the title of the thread is "8's for sporting"

As for shooting Internationally not sure what relevance that has to one's ability to judge the effectiveness of a cartridge. I have competed internationally (FITASC Sporting & Compak) and the only ability or skill required is that of extracting large amounts of money from wallet or purse.

Mr Potter

OK ...wind your neck in Pot, it is only a post not WW3. And only an opinion ......not the Gospel :???:

Yes, yes, yes, I know them all.

So the list is not current then,

My ex - house mate Georgie has been retired for some years and only just started back again in 2011, then was laid up after a very serious back operation a few months ago. If you saw the scaffolding that they put in you will wonder if she ever wants to shoot again.

I am sure that Ollie has sported a GBR blazer as I remember thinking........how handsome .....hell of a shot too.

Whatever it is only a magazine..................and I do not read it anyway

 

[** Pending Removal **]

In defence of Nicola, I would be surprised if that list of top shots were using anything other than their sponsors cartridges. I've never seen an english brand of cartridges on sale abroad.

No need to defend me 40UP (but such a gent as always thank you) because I am non plussed by Potter........... (any variety of Potter - in joke) .

You do not see English cartridges on sale abroad apart from the odd place...........for a reason

 

[40UP]

Another Potter - this one's north of the Mersey. Could be Lancastrian.

 

[GlenPresley]

That wasn't an average of 10 shells then Glen.

Since I was 10 years old there have been 340 english 7s in an ounce of shot. 424 steel is an ounce of 6s but a pellet count nearer to english 8s. The reason they're 6s is Winchester are marking as American 7s at 2.6mm. Many thanks Glen. Over now to JonSkeet and his steel 9s....an awful lot more pellets.

Thanks Jon, seen your report. But steel would take up 30% more room for an ounce [seen all those 3" beretta chambers recently?] even if they were BBs. I'm sorry someone has to count them and there couid be 750. You don't have to average 10 shells. One would do. Gamebore I presume?

I didn't think the shot size was a 6 to be honest based on when I have seen english 6 pellets before, they looked pretty small to me????

Glen.

 

[Hamster]

7, 7.5, has the same result to me! Mind you maybe Hammy can tell the speed difference!

Actually no Glen, I can't and that's just the point. I really can't detect a difference between English 8 or 7.5 (2.2 V 2.3) breaks at range which makes me lean towards the smaller shot as there'll be more pattern coverage hence confidence inspiring. I will say though that when it's windy I sometimes feel the bigger shot rides distant targets better in much the same way that tighter chokes seem as though they punch through wind better, this is backed up by American trap shooters who prefer to use bigger shot in really cold weather or when it's windy.

 

[40UP]

Hi Glen, if you put 10 in a row by a ruler, how many cm? 20 size 6 should total 52mm. Yes I know most of the jokes about inches and rulers.

Hamster, where've you been all this time. Can I point out about wind deflection: however much the shot is deflected by the air moving sideways...so is the pheasant. Only the pattern plate stands still.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

)))))))))))

(back on iPad .....no smilies)

 

[Hamster]

Hamster, where've you been all this time. Can I point out about wind deflection: however much the shot is deflected by the air moving sideways...so is the pheasant. Only the pattern plate stands still.

I have nothing in the way of proof but I feel bigger shot holds together better through tight chokes on windy days. Not all clays need lead by the way .

 

[** Pending Removal **]

All mine need lead and lots of it ............ in either 7's or 7.5 shot

 

[Hawkeye]

Are u talking lead as in distance ahead of a target or lead as in heavy metal ....... or even something to walk the dog with The english language really does have the lead over other languages

 

[40UP]

I know why it is Hamster - bigger shot gets there sooner. Loses less energy. May even need less lead.

All clays need lead - they cannot levitate.

 

[Hamster]

Are u talking lead as in distance ahead of a target or lead as in heavy metal ....... or even something to walk the dog with The english language really does have the lead over other languages

Lead as in gap.

 

[Hamster]

I know why it is Hamster - bigger shot gets there sooner. Loses less energy. May even need less lead.

All clays need lead - they cannot levitate.

You may well have a point, albeit near impossible to detect under normal circumstances.

Do you lead a straight incomer or going away? How about those that need to be shot at peak of travel, any such lead then is all but insignificant enough to be irrelevant.

 

[lhs]

Maybe some leeeeeeeed

 

[hnachaj]

What about Italian 8.5? Even in N.A. we use 8.5 on American trap! But Italian, specialy RC has one advantage, it is hardenned! Why do most International Olympic trap shooters use RC? One, it is the most consistent shell that I have ever tested with a SD of 9 FPS! Two, instead of adding antimony to harden the shot while it becomes less dense and lighter, they harden the shot using an old American method used on cast bullets. I used to cast bullets for IHMSA or long distance metallic silhouette shooting. One needs to transfer the maximum of energy on the steel targets to topple them at distances of up to 200M! One drops the still soft cast bullet into a bucket of water. The hardness goes up over 10X! The bullet does not deform at 50M or even 100M. A denser load will retain more energy at distance. So RC uses less antimony while hardenning the pellet so that it has more retained eneergy at distance than everyione elses high antimony pellets!

Now coat the pellets with nickel. The nickel allows more lubrisicosity among the pellets and thus less friction and deformation= denser patterns at distance!

My favorite for Sporting: 8.5

FITASC: 8

7.5 or English 7= insufficient pattern density at distance and with English and Americans shells, less retained energy than Italian 8!

Regards,

Henry

BTW the proof is in the physics and math!

 

[Hamster]

7.5 or English 7= insufficient pattern density at distance and with English and Americans shells, less retained energy than Italian 8!


Regards,

Henry

BTW the proof is in the physics and math!

The first part makes perfect sense Henry but how would hardening afford 8's more energy than 7's?

 

[Hawkeye]

Your method of dropping bullets into water and RC's hardening method. How does this differ to Eley's short drop method of pellet production?

 

[40UP]

Hi Henry. In England the old books used to call this chilled shot. I think the americans still do.

Hamster ref my thread on Philosophy - if you shoot one yard ahead of a receding target, the shot and clay will meet. You never shoot where the clay used to be. Even springing teal are going one way or the other.

 

[40UP]

Wait a minute... that's a real product? People actually take a cartridge apart, and count the pellets, in a modified cribbage board.

Amazing.

Actually Matt there's a club for people who dismember cartridges. I'm a recruiting agent for the S ociety of A mmunition D ismantlers.

:frown:

 

[ExSCA]

Hah!

I'll never be a member of any club that would accept me...